Let’s imagine that a woman — we’ll call her “you,” like they do in relationship advice land — is trying to calculate the odds that a man will call back after sex. Everyone tells you that if you sleep with a guy on the first date he is less likely to call back. The theory is that giving sex away at a such a low “price” lowers the man’s opinion of you, because everyone thinks sluts are disgusting.* Also, shame on you.
So, you ask, does the chance he will call back improve if you wait till more dates before having sex with him? You ask around and find that this is actually true: The times you or your friends waited till the seventh date, two-thirds of the guys called back, but when you slept with him on the first date, only one-in-five called back. From the data, it sure looks like sleeping with a guy on the first date reduces the odds he’ll call back.
So, does this mean that women make men disrespect them by having sex right away? If that’s true, then the historical trend toward sex earlier in relationships could be really bad for women, and maybe feminism really is ruining society.
Like all theories, this one assumes a lot. It assumes you (women) decide when couples will have sex, because it assumes men always want to, and it assumes men’s opinion of you is based on your sexual behavior. With these assumptions in place, the data appear to confirm the theory.
But what if that those assumptions aren’t true? What if couples just have more dates when they enjoy each other’s company, and men actually just call back when they like you? If this is the case, then what really determines whether the guy calls back is how well-matched the couple is, and how the relationship is going, which also determines how many dates you have.
What was missing in the study design was relationship survival odds. Here is a closer look at the same data (not real data), with couple survival added:
.
By this interpretation, the decision about when to have sex is arbitrary and doesn’t affect anything. All that matters is how much the couple like and are attracted to each other, which determines how many dates they have, and whether the guy calls back. Every couple has a first date, but only a few make it to the seventh date. It appears that the first-date-sex couples usually don’t last because people don’t know each other very well on first dates and they have a high rate of failure regardless of sex. The seventh-date-sex couples, on the other hand, usually like each other more and they’re very likely to have more dates. And: there are many more first-date couples than seventh-date couples.
So the original study design was wrong. It should have compared call-back rates after first dates, not after first sex. But when you assume sex runs everything, you don’t design the study that way. And by “design the study” I mean “decide how to judge people.”
I have no idea why men call women back after dates. It is possible that when you have sex affects the curves in the figure, of course. (And I know even talking about relationships this way isn’t helping.) But even if sex doesn’t affect the curves, I would expect higher callback rates after more dates.
Anyway, if you want to go on blaming everything bad on women’s sexual behavior, you have a lot of company. I just thought I’d mention the possibility of a more benign explanation for the observed pattern that men are less likely to call back after sex if the sex takes place on the first date.
* This is not my theory.
Cross-posted at Family Inequality and Pacific Standard.
Philip N. Cohen is a professor of sociology at the University of Maryland, College Park, and writes the blog Family Inequality. You can follow him on Twitter or Facebook.
Comments 103
Larry Charles Wilson — March 5, 2014
When I was dating in the 1950s you were considered "fast" if you kissed before the 3rd date. Of course I was a white, middle-class, Roman Catholic, schoolboy and I had no idea what those outside my circle might have done or not done.
Bill R — March 5, 2014
Having sex on a first date is tacky behavior regardless of the mind games about call backs or whatever.
Max Kingsbury — March 5, 2014
Your interpretation is a little different than the data shown. The "callback after sex on the first date" number should not be compared to "relationship survival to 7 dates number" it should be compared to "relationship survival after 2 dates".
With your graph, 82% of men should call up for a second date, assuming sex has no impact. If only 20% of men are calling for a second date after sex on the first, then you can't argue that sex has no impact, and that this is basically the same as only 28% of men who went on a first date calling for a 7th date.
Kein Sex vor dem 7ten Date? | Feigenblatt — March 5, 2014
[…] nach der Anstands-Wartezeit um mehr als das Dreifache. Der US-Soziologe Philip N. Cohen hat auf Sociological Images hinter die Statistik geschaut. Das Ergebnis – man hätte es wissen können: Wer sich sieben […]
Ali — March 5, 2014
For some reason, I was confused by these graphs, but I'm also really tired. I'll look at them again in the morning.
I thought of something else, though-- what if it's the guy driving both factors? That is, the guy is or is not going to call you back, and he makes that decision before you have sex. In most of the cases when he's not planning to call you back, he does still want to have sex with you. (It could be that if he isn't planning to call you back, that makes him more likely to want to have sex with you ASAP. Or it could be that guys that are just looking for sex are less likely to care about a second date at all.) But a guy who is not planning to call you back is going to put all his efforts into getting you to bed. This may make you more likely to sleep with him. A guy who really wants a second date may or may not try to get you to sleep with him, but a guy who doesn't want a second date is more likely to try.
So traditional thinking says causality goes in the direction of "sleep with the guy--> no second date" but really it could be "guy doesn't want a second date for whatever reason--> higher chance of sex."
Andrew — March 6, 2014
This model of heterosexuality seems hopelessly outdated.
Why must it be the man who initiates the post-first-date contact?
Why assume that the woman always wants to be called back in the first place?
Why are we invoking feminism in a discussion that frames "dating" as, essentially, a man exchanging a few hours of attention and a certain amount of money for (eventual) sex?
Men who disrespect women for having sex on the first date (but who don't disrespect other men for doing the exact same thing) are hypocrites who aren't worth dating anyway. Why would any woman want to be called back by such a jerk?
TheDom — March 6, 2014
I have sex with a guy when I feel like having sex and so does he. No correlation to "number of dates", etc.
Tesettur Giyim Trend | Does Sleeping With a Guy on the First Date Make Him Less Likely to Call Back? — March 6, 2014
[…] post originally appeared on Sociological Images, a Pacific Standard partner […]
Madison Bannon — March 6, 2014
Hold up...why are we still buying into the idea that MEN must do the calling?
Tiffany — March 6, 2014
If I sleep with someone in a time frame he considers inappropriate (yet also feels free to enjoy and engage in it himself, judgment free!), and that causes him to not call me back, I feel like I'm the real winner here. 1: I got laid. 2: A real misogynistic jerk who embraces double standards is not calling me.
Score 10 points for me!
chadmash — March 6, 2014
it's all fake data guys... and therefore the theories aren't backed up...sooooowhy take it seriously?
Cecilie Wian — March 7, 2014
If i was to find out of dates affected the call-back rate ask people who is still a couple, more than some of my friends are still with a person they slept with first time they meet (norwegians don't date, we meet and hang out, less formal), fewer waited until 7th date (or similar).
Cass — March 7, 2014
Also: maybe women who have sex on the first date don't actually want to be called back - talking to someone right after a one-night-stand can sometimes get kinda awkward. When to have sex and how long the relationship lasts is a mutual decision, not just entirely up to the man (as you've pointed out).
avalemoon — March 7, 2014
feminism is ruining society bcs man dont call girls that sleeps with them on first date, so often?:D isnt feminism something that can kinda prevent that?:P
Dangerous — March 7, 2014
I like your point and thought the same thing upon reading the title of the post. By the end, though, I was kind of hoping that this was a really elaborate setup for a pun.
theakinet — March 7, 2014
Based on these charts I've learned that men will sleep with any woman that'll let them bang if the guy is into the girl. So if a girl wants to separate "guys who want a bang," from "guy who wants a relationship," she should make him take her out on 9 dates.
Why is this tagged "prejudice/discrimination?"
Anomaly — March 7, 2014
Even if men were less likely to call back after sex on the first date doesn't warrant for blaming women. If it's true, then what we need to do is teach men to see women as more than their body parts. To value women for something more than sex because they're much more than what goes in and out their vagina. That double standard is what's ruining society and feminism can help fix it.
Also as others have pointed out, these studies don't consider the fact that sometimes women just want to get laid too and the woman can call him, it doesn't have to be the man, especially if he initiated the first date.
Dating Advice - Sex On The First Date Doesn't Ruin Anything — March 7, 2014
[…] N. Cohen, sociology professor at the University of Maryland is shedding some light on why we may feel the way we do about the timing of sexual relationships. I’m sure plenty of […]
Crusty Socks — March 7, 2014
Dr. Phil, you are a Genius!
BTW, has your popularity with your male students suddenly increased 6 zillion percent?
Anyways, you have been inducted
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LeilaM12 — March 10, 2014
Philip, while your posts are otherwise always my favorite on this blog, I think this is bull. I'll try the grindr example to explain it: Imagine there was no (or only one that was very difficult to access) grindr through which you can immediately have sex and cruising was somehow not possible (bear with me). The only grindr that is easy to access was one on which you'd have to meet and talk to the person without having sex a few times before you were allowed to have sex with them. Now WHICH grindr, the real world grindr, or the imagined grindr, would lead to more relationships?! THERE. THAT's all you need to know. Having sex on the first date is for a hetero or bi woman who wants a relationship with a man a LOOSING strategy: If she didn't, even those men who are (initially) only interested in her as a hole and not a possible partner may change their view once they have spent time with her. If she has sex with them on the first date, she eliminates even that possibility.
stilladyj — March 23, 2014
Answer: If so, he's a douche and you don't want to date him anyway.
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Kitkat — May 21, 2021
I personal feel if he likes me and I like him...been chatting on the phone for weeks before the first date that sex on first date is a personal decision. If he liked you before the first date and you’ve spent time chatting and you are both emotionally available go for it if you choose. If he chooses to not call you back then see ya. No double standard here and if it’s been awhile then go have some fun.
Kitkat — May 21, 2021
I personally feel if he likes me and I like him...been chatting on the phone for weeks before the first date that sex on first date is a personal decision. If he liked you before the first date and you’ve spent time chatting and you are both emotionally available go for it if you choose. If he chooses to not call you back then see ya. No double standard here and if it’s been awhile then go have some fun.
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Mandie — June 8, 2022
This stuff is out of date. Of course it doesn’t matter if you have sex with someone on the first date or whenever your ready. Because what if you have sex the first date and he doesn’t call you back “no time wasted” if you have sex when ur ready like 7th date or whenever then they don’t call you back after that. “Time wasted there” so it doesn’t matter first date or whenever. If ur comfortable whenever then do it. And i know plenty of ppl who had sex on the first date and had a 4+ long relationship. That person could be that one you spend ur life with no matter what. Go on a nice date and talk about things see if you have stuff in common and have a Connection if so go for it.
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[…] ist. Viele https://order-bride.com/de/asian-girl/china/ Amerikaner aufgabeln auch asiatische Frauen Außenkulissen schön ferner […]
Why Are German Girls Specialized? – The DexignStack Team — February 15, 2024
[…] in Europe are known for having lovely, healthy images. They typically have broad mouths https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2014/03/05/does-sleeping-with-a-guy-on-the-first-date-make-him…, big eyes, and higher cheekbones. These characteristics give them a really female appearance and […]
The Obstacles of Dating Someone From Afar - ATMC — February 29, 2024
[…] dating is a fun and beautiful way to meet new people. It can, however, even been a problem. You https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2014/03/05/does-sleeping-with-a-guy-on-the-first-date-make-him… must be aware of their customs and traditions if you fall in love with someone from another nation. […]