I cut my hair short last year. All of a sudden people started asking if I was a lesbian. The strength of the association was super bizarre.

hello people! what about femmes???

"They may want to be a symbol of the very existence of gay people and thereby fight the assumption that everyone is straight. They may want to find other gay women with which to build community or to find a girlfriend. Or they may simply want to ward off the unwanted attention of men"

Or they may simply want to be recognized as themselves?

seconding e and Malcolm.

But e and Malcolm, someone said it on PostSecret, it must be true and relevant and meaningful, worthy of deep analysis positing all kinds of things about lesbians, because, you know, they're like an exotic species or isolated tribe that must be sussed out by wise sociologists!!!

...or they may wish to avoid appearance-policing from other members of the community.

When I was growing up, if a man wore an earring in his right ear, that indicated homosexuality. Or at least that's what I was told (I grew up in a provincial homophobic neighborhood). I gather that signal isn't really vogue anymore.

However, it makes a lot of sense, from a practical standpoint, for homosexuals to come to an understanding about a simple, visible, signal. The utility of this is obvious: it is, after all, why men and women have secondary sex characteristics! (I would think it's more important among gays, since their density is lower.)

I suspect among many homophobes, the resentment doesn't stem so much from the fact that homosexuals want to have sex with people of the same gender (though they may consciously rationalize it that way), but because the stereotypical signaling behavior draws attention to themselves in such an overt way, and there's a natural human impulse to police such behavior (as in how school children deride the ones who are different). The topic of gay-bashing as policing male sexuality has come up on this blog before.

I remember seeing this one and feeling really horrible for the person who sent it in. Sunday Secrets are typically the things you feel you can't tell the people you know. I inferred that this woman felt that the lesbians of her acquaintance would, as Sam Izdat noted above, judge her negatively for being too girly. It made me wonder if I've been unusually lucky or if she's unusually unlucky... I'm very girly, but my partners have not only accepted but loved that about me, even those who don't typically go for femmes. (One used to call me "prissy" in such a way that it was a caress instead of an insult.)

What the hell? Aren't you guys supposed to be socially aware? How could you write garbage like this?

When I was a little kid, I begged-- BEGGED-- my parents to let me wear pants instead of a skirt to preschool. Far, far before I knew I was gay. When I was sixteen, I got my first job just so I could buy men's clothes to wear, because my parents wouldn't buy it for me. I love the way I look in men's jeans and a sharp button-down shirt with cuff links. I feel so sexy and confident. The first time I sneaked one of my dad's shirts homes and wore it, I felt this sense of relief so powerful I thought I'd cry. When I was forced to wear women's clothing, I deliberately didn't take care of my appearance because I HATED the way I was forced to dress.

I'm sorry that woman who wrote that feels social pressure to adopt a gender presentation that isn't comfortable for her. That breaks my heart. I hope she discovers a femme-positive group of friends soon who will love her for who she is and nourish her feminine gender identity. However, for you to make the assertion that women like me who enjoy a masculine gender presentation are only doing so to 'ward off the attention of men' (newsflash: as a gay woman, none of the choices in my life are made for the benefit of men) or as some kind of 'strategic communication' is revolting.

I'm sorry if this seems angry, but I get so much of this gender-ignorant, transphobic, homophobic bullshit from unenlightened people ('why do you dress like a man? You'd be so pretty if you'd only paint your nails and wear make-up like a real woman!') that it's beyond frustrating to get it from you guys. Do a little research on trans-masculinity before you slinging around your assumptions about the gender presentation of a group you don't belong to and clearly have no experience with. I'm butch because I love being butch.

I thought the term was Lipstick Lesbian?

What about tomboyish girls who're hetero?

What about bi's...etc...

I'm bisexual, but I definitely "pass" as straight to most people.

I know that if I spent more time in bars where lesbians hang out, or volunteered with local LGBT organizations, I'd find it easier to meet female partners. But doing those things, for that reason, always felt artificial to me--so I didn't. I don't go out to bars/join organizations specifically to meet sexual partners, period, so it would feel strange.

Between those two things, and the fact that more men are attracted to women than women that are attracted to women, I have mostly dated men.

When I was single, I used to joke that I needed a t-shirt or necklace that says "I like girls too!" I did wear a cute rainbow necklace when I was with my (now ex-) girlfriend, though. Maybe I should have kept wearing it?

In my ideal world, everyone would dress however casually or flamboyantly (or both!) they wanted, and no one would be offended if they were hit on by a gender they're not attracted to, and we could all be open about who we love. I think in some places we're making progress. My youngest brother is very fashion-minded. He's also straight, but he gets mistaken for a gay man now and then, and he doesn't care!

Trans community does this like crazy too, at least in my experience. I'm FtM but I'm reaaaaaally femmey and have no interest at all in women. People usually don't take me seriously, and often other trans people can't tell tell which way I'm going -- they take me as MtF. :p I've even had people argue with me about my own gender identity based on my presentation.

It's sad that the world still does this to people.

I know some people thought the commentary was offensive, but I don't think it has to be. Obviously there are a lot of queer women who have shorter hair or wear more androgynous clothing because it feels good to them. I'm a queer girl who always had long hair, and I did in fact cut my hair short to signal to other women that I was interested in them! Once I had a girlfriend, I let it grow out. I didn't resent having to look a little butcher, because it felt good, but sometimes gay women do try to look "extra-queer" to make it known who they're interested in!

As a cis-gendered, heterosexual woman with rather 'masculine' facial features, I find that I self-consciously avoid highly 'feminine' clothing choices (frills, bows, heavy makeup, lots of jewelry, etc) because it increases the chances that I will encounter mistaken assumptions that I'm a transwoman (an effect, I suppose, of the overtly feminine way that many transwomen perform gender so as to 'pass', or at least court acceptance of their female identity). So, ironically, I dress in a more 'masculine' style so as not to be thought to be "really" (biologically) male.

I've always preferred women with short hair. It never occured to me that a short-haired woman might be a lesbian. But then I never thought a long-haired man with an ear-ring might be gay. Apparently I've lived my 68 years in a very sheltered manner.

In fact, adopting a masculinized appearance is one way that women signal to other people that they are gay, something they need to do because heterosexuality is normative and, therefore, generally assumed of everyone in the absence of signs otherwise. There are lots of reasons why lesbians may want to be visible.

But then, the things you are seeing might not be the things that are really there. I don't even have words to describe how the way people conflate gender identity and sexual orientation hurts me.

I'm getting plenty of shit about my gender presentation, mostly because I've got the audacity to have short hair and be female, which obviously MUST. make me queer. I am, but that's not the reason why my hair is short. It just looks shit long because it's really, really thin. It's always been like that, long before I discovered I'm queer. Because I'm also fat people quickly pidgeonholed me as a stereotypical butch lesbian (I'm neither, I'm bigendered and bisexual) and people I've never met haughtily informed me at LGBT meet-ups as well as online that they couldn't care less for all lesbians adhering to the popular stereotype of lesbians and that I didn't have to deny my womanhood due to my sexual orientation, which, given my gender, is an absolutely bizarre thing to say.

I can agree with some of the commenters here that the last paragraph is a bit iffy, and poorly worded, but if handled correctly and with proper method (it's kinda sad that a student have to lecture a bunch of proffessionals on this) there may be something there.

Personally I want to keep my hair long, as it is a big part of my identity, but I do agree that when going to a gay club or gathing, I might choose clothes that fit the stereotype more than the clothes I usually wear. I also happen to find more androgynous and short haired women dead sexy, and both things are partly for fear of rejection, I think. When you're in a town where students go anywhere there is a club, even at queer night, there is a function catching cues as to who might be willing to make out for other reasons than to put on a show for the boys. Or indeed, there is a point in dressing to drive away the guys who go to gay clubs in order to pick up women (there is always one)

But even so, this is only part of the reasons for one person in a very special enviorment. You can add a dozen other things, like the fact that I have trouble finding common ground with either grily girls or manly men, or that this is a subculture, which brings with it a certain exoticism. Yes, it's worth studying, and yes, it may even be worth applying theory. But then please to that, don't just take one example and speculate form your own prejudices. Class, country, political, climate, and acessability all play a part, even with the queer community.

Even within the lesbian community, there is sometimes pressure to present a certain way. I like to wear skirts but I intentionally dyke it up a little when I do - partly because that feels good, but partly because I don't want to present too "femme." I don't identify as femme, AND part of the reason for that is that I don't feel like I'll be taken as seriously within my lesbian community if I present as femme. I don't think of myself as "high-maintenance," which I feel like is associated with femininity, and I like to top, damnit... so, yeah, I try for a little more androgyny when I'm looking for a date. It's not all social pressure - I do also just like the idea of fucking with gender - but part of it is.

I want to address this portion of the post: "There are lots of reasons why lesbians may want to be visible....Or they may simply want to ward off the unwanted attention of men."

"Appearing" lesbian, or believed to be non-hetero, does not ward off unwanted attention from men. In fact, in some instances it attracts attention. Sakia Gunn, a young African American lesbian, was stabbed to death in 2003 after being harassed on the street by two men, one of whom is in prison still. The New Jersey Seven (now referred to as the New Jersey Four) were likewise harassed by a man on the street in 2006; they made it clear during the interaction that they were not interested in men and a physical altercation ensued. In the latter case, the women defended themselves yet all of them were convicted of felony assault and other charges. Horrifically, the man was cast in the media as a "spurned Romeo" (the women report that he spit on them, threw a lit cigarette at them, and attempted to strangle at least two of the them) and the women were likened to animals (i.e., "lesbian wolf pack" in the New York Daily News). These are two cases where "appearing lesbian" certainly failed to ward off unwanted attention from men. There must be countless other such incidents, probably many of them small and over in seconds and so commonplace that they are forgotten in minutes.

Public harassment of women is so common it often barely registers unless the offense is obvious or violent. Women are harassed when their harassers think they're straight and when they think they are not straight. Lesbians are targets of harassment motivated by homophobia and tharassment motivated by sexism. In fact, lesbians may be more at risk of homophobic harassment in some cases than gay men, which we never hear on the news or elsewhere. Gay men are often targeted for homophobic harassment while alone in so-called "gay areas" but lesbians who are victims of homophobic harassment are often targeted while in the company of one or more lesbians and while not in everyday places (for example, while on a college campus) (Comstock 1989). That seems to make sense when we think about when and where women are targeted for harassment: whenever, wherever. Lesbians - femme or not - aren't excluded and may in fact be more viciously targeted once their identity is known.

Seems important that we not perpetuate the myth that appearing lesbian somehow repels men's unwanted attention. Sometimes, that is far from true.

This has to be one of the most ignorant posts and string of comments I've ever seen from supposedly informed people.

Substitute the concept of "black person" for all of the places where you have "lesbian" and maybe, just maybe you can see how bizarre and deeply offensive you're being.

There isn't a cliche, stereotype, prejudice, or pigeonhole that someone hasn't trotted out here. And all those personal anecdotes don't mean shit, folks. Your personal experience does not an analysis make. There is no "lesbian community" any more than there is a "straight community." Hint: claiming there is and that you have your finger on the pulse of it, is just like pompously stating, "well, black men think/say/wear/believe/do/experience [...]."

It's no more ok for people to do this who claim to be lesbians (anyone can posture here - just look at the commenter who went from an out and proud lesbian telling us all about it because she's so special, to later telling us that she's going to identify as "bi"), than for anyone else to do it.

Let me put a finer point on it: there is no stereotypical lesbian, lesbian experience, lesbian community, lesbian identity, or lesbian person. That's because we are PEOPLE and we don't fit into neat little boxes. If you choose to place yourself or others in such a box, you're an ignorant bigot, plain and simple. And doing so makes the patriarchal order of things very, very secure.

As another uber-femme gay woman this is something I struggled with a lot too -- dealing with invisiblity within the gay community is a pretty well-known stress, I think. It's a common fact that more femme queer women need to verbally out themselves basically constantly -- I think I refer to myself as a dyke unnecessarily often because I am otherwise assumed to be heterosexual by both queer and hetero folks, which frustrates me, and my appearance also means that my sexuality is constantly questioned ("but you don't look gay!") And it took me a while to build up the confidence to have to talk about my queerness basically on a daily basis -- before I was really "out" I definitely kept my hair shorter and tried to use those passive visual codes to get people to assume I was queer (though this is obviously not the reason that EVERYONE keeps their hair short, etc.) Now that I'm older and have both the confidence and life experience to not worry about that as much, I'm totally fine with looking as girly as I do -- but it's definitely not an uncommon struggle.

I feel conflicted about this because it seems like such a small violin, comparatively -- the issues that non-gender-conforming folks face are SO much worse than the stress of invisibility, and it's true that my appearance gives me the privilege of floating through the hetero world with little to no harassment for being queer. But there is definitely something to be said about the slight disadvantage of a.) being invisible within your own community (and often judged for it -- when I was younger this TERRIFIED me, I felt like I was criticized so much for being 'girly') and b.) still having to deal with the epic amounts of bullshit that gender-conforming "pretty "straight girls get -- I know that I occasionally am plagued with a conflicted jealousy that more "butch" girls get harassed by men much less than me (it's a 3+ times a day occurrence in my life.)

One of my other issues with this is that I often feel there's an undercurrent of misogyny/opinion as things coded "feminine" as somehow still less/weaker in the distaste/judgement of 'femme' appearing girls -- she must be dumb and interested only in makeup, she's not a 'real' lesbian, she's cisgendered and not interested in genderfuck so therefore uninteresting, she must be ditzy, she'll leave me for a man, she's a dumb slut -- and it upsets me to encounter that within the queer community as well. And admittedly it did take me a while to own that and grow an attitude about it (like, 'look bitch, I'm in heels and lipstick but I can wield a hammer and take care of myself and be outspoken about queer issues too, it doesn't make you better or smarter or gayer than me, i am still super hot even if your'e into more butch girls,' etc -- this stuff takes time and experience and a supportive community or group of friends.) I do still think that less femme-appearing women do have to deal with more crap -- but that doesn't mean that this isn't also an issue which comes up.

While people are arguing that there is no "definitive lesbian identity or community" there IS definitely a general stereotype and set of norms which function for at least a plurality of queer women -- signs and norms which I suspect much of the hetero community is somewhat unaware of. (My mom and a handful of straight friends think that my girlfriend's undercut and bowties are just hip, whereas to anyone who's queer she's immediately identifiable as probably 95% likely to be gay.) And those norms also come with their own set of related stress around conforming, just as the heteronormative standards also create pressure... I think the intersectionality of norms (within the queer vs hetero communities, and what happens when you move between them on a daily basis) is interesting.

Sexual identity and gender identity bigotry:  It isn't just for homophobes!

im supper gay im in beyond girly! if its not pink im not going to wear it

BS article. Gays dress stupidly because they are mentally ill.