A white cis-woman calling black trans-women misogynist and responsible for a 'tired show where women’s sexuality revolves around pleasuring the male gaze' smacks of privilege and entitlement.

Just because men are present at a venue does not assume that all action taken at said venue is for the benefit of men. These aren't white Tulane sorority girls making out with each-other at frat parties on Broadway we're talking about.

I'm not sure what "arguably misogynistic lyrics" means, but if you have access to some lyrics, could you post them?

A friendly reminder: "transgender" is the preferred term; not "transgendered."

Did several paragraphs get left off of this or something? Since right now the argument presented basically runs like this: Is the "sissy bounce" sexually liberating? Nope! Next question!

And as James and Alyson pointed out, the attitude taken here towards the transgender performers is rather problematic.

Why, exactly, are 'gay' and 'transgendered' being put together as though they're mutually inclusive or even the same thing?

I found the insistent use of quotes around sissy bounce to be a little dismissive and/or judgmental regarding the validity of the term.

In this video freedia clarifies that there is no such thing as sissy bounce, that it is called bounce music and that some of the rappers are sissy but that there are straight performers all part of the same movement...

and also describes some interesting stuff that about family titles in the way people in the gay community relate how somebody might become somebody else's mother...

also I do think freedia seems to continue to include herself as part of the gay community... so that to be murky in separation between what formally might be called transgender or gay is probably quite accurate in it's murkiness...

though separating transfolk from women is deffinitely offensive... with me the blurrier the better.

I'd like to be all outraged but this song is a BANGER

Ass e'rywhere, ass e'rywhere, a-a-a-ass e'rywhere

My comment on "Arguing otherwise deprives nature of is normativeness" was a bit of a tangent on the whole issue of trans identity and the normativeness of what we are by nature vs what we are by history and action. Women who dance in front of a bunch of clearly oogling men know what's up. They do "dance to please the man" as much as any model for a painting in the male-gaze series (excellent video lately posted here)

@Alyson says that using "transgendered" is saying that a "cis" (do cismen ask to be called cis men? or is that the trans controlling their own discourse) man is "just like" the transgendered. I'm still working on my transphobia, but that strikes me like saying that divorced people are JUST LIKE unmarried single people. Or that a man who is divorced has become never married. Not. He was married and now is not. That makes him different in "nature" from the one who was never.

I'm seeing the Mackinnon vs Haraway dispute more and more. Funny to see all the back and forth here.

"do cismen ask to be called cis men? or is that the trans controlling their own discourse"

Uh, don't think that's really the point of the term. Rather, using "cis" helps to shift away from describing some people as "normal" or unmarked and others as a deviation from that normal state.

Woah. I don't normally track the comments on this blog after the first day; do all posts here turn out like this?

To assume that a form of dance is not liberating because it catches the attention of men is to assume that sissy bounce is aimed to please straight men. Not only that, but it takes on the whole..if a woman wears a short skirt and a man yells at her across the street was she not asking for it..question. I am honestly appalled that this blog would even run this short blurb of ramblings. Sissy Bounce is not about any of this. SB is fun, it's liberating, it upholds queer fun in new orleans in spite of all the area has been through. I think it is altogether incredible and beautiful. Maybe I'm bold to say it, but *somebody* needs to do a little search of sissy bounce (my favorite is sissy nobby on youtube) and see what this is all about and come at it not from the jaded perspective of pop culture in the united states that glorifies heteronormativity at the expense of exploiting women...but a whole new light--i think you'll be surprised at what you find.

*sigh*
sometimes we dance because we love it. it is fun. we enjoy it. if others watch and enjoy it too,more power to them. but jezuz kuhrist, i get so tired of feeling as if i must dance alone at home or in a burqua to avoid accusations of dancing for the male gaze and to please them.

i often dance salsa and perreo alone.sometimes i dance with other women.sometimes men watch. they may like it, who knows? but i dance it because it is fun and with women because who has time to wait for a guy to ask you to dance when there's another girl standing there idle and ready to go.we go out to dance and have fun and we can do that without men, or with them.

guess what,some of us women actually are liberated enough to not give a fck who is watching or not and dont waste our lives covering ourselves,restraining ourselves and making ourselves as unappealing as possible to avoid accidentally pleasing the eye of the enemy.if other people want to go out to a dance club and not dance because they don't want men to enjoy it, so be it. but i'll take a win win- i have fun and the men have fun watching, over a lose lose - the men don't get the pleasure of watching me dance but i don't get the pleasure of dancing either- any day.

"Sexually liberating" from *what* exactly? The word "liberating" does suggest being liberated *from* something. I fail to see how a woman "choosing" to express her sexuality in a way that is typically expected of her by men is so much more "liberating" than just being plain old expected to do it. It's win-win for any man who likes the idea of women-as-sex-object though, because now we're all convinced that doing what they want us to do is "liberating".

Unfortunately, within a patriarchy, "choice" and "agency" are extremely limited concepts for a many, many women; none of us live in a vacuum, in fact we all live in a culture of women as commodity/sex object. I don't blame any woman for what limited choices she may make under a patriarchy, nor do I think any woman should spend every waking moment modifying her behaviour in case she should accidentally titilate a man. I don't however, accept this whole "whatever I choose to do is 'liberating' because I say so" as liberating at all, or transgressive, or in any way different to anything that has gone before. Same old patriarchy in a new outfit.

The context here is centrally Queer, with female outliers (whatever their sexuality), with *passive* heteronormative, non-trans men outside the circle of action. They can see in the bubble, so what? Should we outlaw them from the club so we can dance without being "subjected" to their gaze? Wouldn't that foster the kind of relationship of curfew laws? Or better yet, board up the bar a la pre-Stonewall?

This is another example of how certain het cis women (usually white 2nd wave intellectuals, not all in that category do this) project their subjective experience of oppression onto Queers and Queer culture, including POC in Queer culture.

Because patriarchy is so ubiquitous, it i slike being in the belly of a beast. A Queer context was created here, within a vastly larger patriarchical context and it is really upsetting that people can't see this. If I am in a storm and I use an umbrella, it doesn't mean none of the rain will get on me. But it's certainly makes me more comfortable-comfortable enough that I can almost pretend it's not raining on me, if just for that night. It illustrates my agency by taking action that the positively minimizes the effects of a harsh environment on me, and by doing this within my locus of control, it gives me hope that someday I could make this locus larger and feel like this always.

correction: it shouls read "including POC Queer culture".

Also: Getting het men to appreciate Queer people instead of killing them, sometimes leads to said men developing appreciation of their art and culture - even if these men have somewhat prurient interests in watching women dance within a Queer bubble. There's no evidence that these men are harassing people or being disruptive.

To Alyson, if you ever read this page again: of course you are a woman. I really admire your bravery in disclosing you're also trans on this thread.

Trans women (particularly trans women of color) are one of the most, if not *the* most, ritually disenfranchised, oppressed, dehumanized and hyper-objectified category of women under patriarchy. I work in trans health, and many trans women and others on the mtF spectrum, especially POC, are often categorically denied housing (of any kind, including shelters), employment, education, public bathrooms and transportation, criminalized and incarcerated, driven into underground economies, have bottles thrown at them when they walk down the street, and are frequently violently tortured and killed, without the police even opening a case. And this is in a sophisticated modern liberal metropolis, the kind that has LGBT health programs where they can get affordable hormones with little in the way of patronizing hoops to jump through. They are not the creators of misogyny, but suffer from it more than any other group I can think of.

I've read about 50+ posts on this blog across widely varying topics, and I LOVE it generally. I only started posting recently as I am getting quite frustrated with the complete blind spot when it comes to Queer/LGBT issues. Obvious Queer contexts and communications are invisibilized by being studied through a het lens (D&G, do it like a dude, this post) as if the only concern is how Queer Liberation could impact heterosexual women ( apparently it inspires some of them to dance), creating heterosexual women as the only point of reference. The history of Queer Liberation movements and the root, evolution and efficacy and of their tactics, communication and goals are completely overlooked, even when they are very obvious.

Anyway, I realize this discussion is months old, and has somewhat derailed. So I am mostly writing for the benefit of another Queer or trans or sissy or het woman who likes to dance at Queer shows, who may stumbles across this.

Sometimes it's just not worth fighting the rain (which I see is even here). Always make sure to take long breaks under an umbrella. Being rained on gets increasing uncomfortable, after the first hour or so. Better to be liberated from it and get under an umbrella. Better yet a rainbow. :)

Okay. That's all. Really.

"That may well be the case, but videos and pictures from the Times article also show a constant group of men gathered on the perimeter, leering — snapping photos, filming, and shining flashlights on the dancer’s body parts."

Why is the assumption that the men are heterosexual? Does the Male Gaze remain sexist if the men doing the gazing aren't straight?

I find it difficult to believe that openly gay male & trans female rappers are performing to a crowd of straight men in the southern United States. This article's misogyny sensors are at too sensitive of a setting.

Plus, "sissy" is not a sexist term, it is a heterosexist & gender-role-strictness insult.

This music is refereed to as just "bounce" not "sissy bounce" in New Orleans.