Danielle C. sent us a video about “Muslim demographics.” When I saw the title, I assumed it was just a basic informational video about the Muslim population. Oh, indeed not:
There are so many things going on there, I’m having trouble knowing where to start. I’m going to just sidestep the many demographic assertions thrown at us, though readers may have thoughts there. It is interesting how the presence of Muslims is associated with the idea of an Islamic state–at about 3:20 the narrator says that Muslim population growth will turn France into an “Islamic Republic” by 2039 or so. But a Muslim population is not the same as an Islamic republic–one is a religious population, the other is a form of government, and they don’t automatically go together, as, say, Turkey might illustrate.
Also notice the explicit assumption that Muslims are inherently bad and that a country with an increasing Muslim population is automatically in danger (as well as the clear assumption about who “we” and “our” children and grandchildren are). In fact, while the word “immigration” is usually used in a threatening tone of voice in the video, apparently the threat from the Muslim hordes is sufficient that we may even have to accept the need for Latino immigrants, since they may be the only group that can save the U.S. for ending up like Europe, which is a lost cause already.
Joshua — May 12, 2009
Muslims will evangelize America through the use of education... and other means. You mean like social welfare programs? Horror! You'd think we'd be happy they're not blowing up our buildings.
Muslim "evangelism" is no different than what the Catholic church has done for centuries. I don't approve of either, but it's hypocritical to be okay with one and not the other.
This shit is scary. It's the precursor to religious cleansing.
Missives from Marx — May 12, 2009
What is ridiculous is that they say the fertility rate for European countries is 1.38, and then they go on to show that Muslims will be a majority in several countries in the next 3 to 5 decades. They must be dividing the fertility rates for "native" Europeans and immigrant Muslim Europeans. That is, they're apparently not counting Muslims in Europe as part of the European population. I wasn't aware that "European" and "Muslim" were mutually exclusive identities.
Dangger — May 12, 2009
I agree with missives from Marx. There is a continuous double standard for what a citizen and a real citizen is in Europe and the US. I have no idea where they get their standards in order to separate a second class citizen from a "normal" citizen.
Thanks for the video, it is very rich in religious and social assumptions.
Cecil — May 12, 2009
Sustain a culture? What does that even mean? Maybe sustain a population, but obviously not the intention of this message.
Also, aren't we already overpopulating the Earth? If we keep up at this rate the Earth will no longer be able to sustain us.
Chicho — May 12, 2009
Just wondering, isn't it interesting that the video uses a mirrored Turkish flag to represent Muslim immigrants? Traditionally, the colour of Islam is green, so why not use that?
Communist invasion flashbacks, anyone?
Tlönista — May 12, 2009
Ugh, the "Eurabians"—the ideological heirs of Grant, Stoddard and the like.
Also: gotta love how the video's original poster is "friendofmuslim". With friends like these...
Fernando — May 12, 2009
The video is very well produced, I'd like to know where's the funding coming from.
Claire — May 12, 2009
This video's message is so confusing. Is the call to action a call to evangelize and convert Muslims to Christianity, or a call to action to convince people to have more children? Don't they realize that Islam is a religion, and not an ethnicity? Or are they equating the two in the way that there is both a Jewish religion and there are also cultural/ethnic Jews who may not be religious Jews? Are they okay with Iraqis and Lebanese living in the Netherlands and reproducing as long as those Iraqis and Lebanese are Christian, or at least not Muslim?
Also, heaven forbid culture *ever* change! And, of course, everyone knows that no immigrant *ever* adopts any parts of the culture of their new home. Nope, never happens.
Nicolas Krebs — May 12, 2009
"There are so many things going on there, I’m having trouble knowing where to start." (gwen)
For the fake demographic statistics, you can see "World Factbook", 2008 edition, CIA, https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/download/download-2008/ , and tinyfrog, "Muslim Demographics", Tiny Frog, 2009-05-03, http://tinyfrog.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/muslim-demographics/ . The fertilitty rate of Muslims in France is not 8.1 children/woman, of course, and there are not 25% Muslim in belgian population.
"But a Muslim population is not the same as an Islamic republic–one is a religious population, the other is a form of government, and they don’t automatically go together, as, say, Turkey might illustrate."
Indeed. See also Saudi Arabia, which is not a republic, but a kingdom ;-) .
"in the video [...] Europe [...] is a lost cause already"
Yes :-( .
Lance — May 12, 2009
What I find fascinating--and there's a lot there that's fascinating--is how they stress that a number of European countries are already at the "irreversible" threshhold. Which suggests that...I don't really know what it suggests. Perhaps if only we can convert enough Muslims to Christianity, it means that the culture won't change after all. Or maybe we have to convert Muslims to...Germans. Or something.
Elizabeth H. — May 12, 2009
It's interesting how they speak of Islam as if it's a race or ethnicity rather than a religion. As if all children born into Muslim families have bad "Islam genes." Not all children born into Muslim families will grow up to follow Islam, and not all Muslims are pushing for an Islamic republic. While the idea of an Islamic theocracy is certainly scary (just look at Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, etc.), having more "real" (white?) European babies isn't the solution, and neither is trying to convert them to Christianity or any other religion.
Village Idiot — May 12, 2009
We should convert everyone into critical thinkers. Ok, on second thought we should've done that a thousand years ago, but better late than never I guess (thank God we're adequately funding education!).
Once a religion gets really organized, all Hell tends to break loose (ironic, isn't it?). The fundies/evangelicals here in the U.S. wreaked havoc before their extremism finally freaked out enough of the relatively apathetic but very numerous moderates from both major parties and they lost 'their' voice in Congress. Still, thanks to our concept of separation of Church and State, their havoc was relatively mild compared to the good ol' days (btw, those infamous creationism stickers are very difficult to peel out of biology textbooks).
History, both recent and ancient, makes me think that any given religious group plays nice only until it feels empowered enough not to have to. Then we see their true nature, which is to "help" the rest of us "see the light" and behave properly according to their particular dogma. If possible, Proper Behavior will be made law, and both Christians and Muslims have been known to torture and kill people in order to "help" them get "saved." Europe has been a tolerable place to hang out for a while now because of having evicted religion to the periphery (for the most part). To a lesser extent, that goes for the U.S. as well (the recent fundamentalist hubris notwithstanding). It suited me nicely, but like others have said, things change. I was just hoping they'd change for the better, but hope is just another kind of prayer.
So, I'd imagine a lot of the fear about Muslim immigration in Europe is fear of potentially devolving back into another religiously-enforced Dark Age. From reading their own Inquisitorial history Europeans are well aware of what organized religion is capable of, and Muslims worship the same god! Oh no... please not Him again!
I'm no more worried about "Muslim extremists" than I am about "Evangelical Christians," which is to say I'm extremely concerned about (and annoyed by) both. The thought of "conversion" in this context is just ludicrous, what's needed is diversion; give everyone a free television w/ basic cable (no religious channels!), and maybe a Playstation or a Wii or something. Children are the future, and a few hours of playing Grand Theft Auto will have the zealous ones exchanging their suicide vests and abortion clinic hit lists for dope and hookers, God willing.
CJ — May 12, 2009
This is so wrong on so many levels. This is worse than a Christian dominated world why?
Where did this originate?
Ole — May 12, 2009
Oh no! Journalism, politics and - gasp! - education! This is doom!
I don't really recognize this image of the Europe that I lived in for 30 years, but I guess with such a demographic explosion things have changed fast in the two I've been abroad.
In any case: I'm really looking forward for these imaginary Muslims to bring journalism, politics and education to America. We need at least two of those badly here.
Missives from Marx — May 13, 2009
Village Idiot: you said, "Christians and Muslims have been known to torture and kill people in order to 'help' them." It turns out that this is also true of the US state, the British state, the French state, ... need I go on?
However, I have to say that I'm pretty scared of evangelicals.
Heresiarch — May 13, 2009
"Something dramatic has happened to the world’s birthrates. Defying predictions of demographic decline, northern Europeans have started having more babies. Britain and France are now projecting steady population growth through the middle of the century. In North America, the trends are similar. In 2050, according to United Nations projections, it is possible that nearly as many babies will be born in the United States as in China."
Birdseed — May 13, 2009
Anti-muslim hate is HUGE in Europe, and alarmingly like the Antisemitic rhetoric seventy years ago. It's also surprisingly accepted academically, with anti-muslim fearmongers regular guests at conferences and in the media. Swedish journalist Andreas Malm has written a great book on this which I hope will get translated into other languages:
Village Idiot — May 13, 2009
Missives from Marx said: "Village Idiot: you said, “Christians and Muslims have been known to torture and kill people in order to ‘help’ them.” It turns out that this is also true of the US state, the British state, the French state, … need I go on?"
Nobody's perfect, but I'll take what we have now over any kind of official State Religion. Of course it'd be best to put a stop to killing for both religion and politics altogether, but that's a long, hard road and I think we're going to have to be satisfied with simply reducing the rate of inspired murder (at best; we might be very fortunate to merely stop it from getting worse). Gotta start somewhere...
Alyssa — May 13, 2009
This is so repugnant that I actually had to take a break from watching it. Who published this? Why do they consider white Christians being a minority the end of culture as we know it? What do they expect will happen? What is the call to action they speak of: do they want white Christians to have more babies, are they calling for a decrease in the population of Muslims at any cost, or both?
Please tell me this idea isn't catching on...
Earnest Dodge — May 13, 2009
I'm not sure what action they're calling for here. Have more white babies? Or uh....
Kinney — May 13, 2009
I would like to point out that Algeria was part of France as recently as 1962. They were a whole lot more Muslims in France then as compared to now. Really the only problem here is universal suffrage.
T B — May 14, 2009
Yet again, intolerance and hatred is given a gloss of science.
The guy in the video sure spits out a lot of numbers --
as though all of this 'data' legitimizes the rest of the message (e.g. the scarey music).
I'm not rejecting science or statistics per se, mind you;
I'm just pointing out how they sometimes are used.
Moss — May 14, 2009
Also, see links under 'Demographic Jihad' at the Religion of Peace™ Subject Index.
aj — May 15, 2009
well a lot of comments on how bad it is an how its all obviously wrong,all i say is why dont u just dig into it,i did for about a week solid,the video is more or less on the money.u know as kaiser soyze said "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist".well i for one beleive the video through my research online.i can tell all of you now that there will only be only so much room in australia when europe becomes muslim,at least that country wont let them build too many mosques.........go to mecca and try and build a church yeah good luck!!!
Dubi — May 17, 2009
I think this clip would've been much better if after "this is a call to action" they would've given illustration of the action that's required. Say, a collage of porn clips.
(yeah yeah, porn is bad, I know).
Dubi — May 17, 2009
Oh, also, I like the threatening tone in the word "immigration" with relation to Canada. Canada SEEKS immigration. Fervently, even. Plus, the number one source country for immigrants into Canada is China... Not many Muslims there, I hear.
Gnatalby — May 17, 2009
@Dubi: There is a sizable minority of Muslims in China, actually.
Obviously this video is insane on a number of levels, but one of them that irks me is the use of "Islamic" to refer to people. Muslim! Stuff is Islamic, People are Muslim.
spacecake — May 18, 2009
I don't know if there's been a discussion here on the movie Fitna so far, but it became a huge issue in Holland and Germany, both countries with big Muslim populations.
Here are some links about the movie and its director, the Dutch MP Geert Wilders: http://www.themoviefitna.com/
By the way, I just found out that I'm not allowed to view the site anymore, so I'm wondering if it has something to do with the fact, that I'm in Germany...
Anyways, the movie can still be viewed at liveleak.com and Wilders is said to be working on a continuation of the movie, Fitna 2.
spacecake — May 18, 2009
About the movie:
The movie itself:
For the German speakers:
AT22 — May 19, 2009
The person who posted the video on youtube is from Lebanon, I don't know any further but my guess is he is probably close to christian political parties such as "Lebanese Forces" and the like. Lebanon is a pretty insignificant country but it does have some interesting features, like being the Arab country with the largest christian population, though they still are a minority which is made "worse" because the Lebanese christians are very split politically, unlike sunnis or shias who are "more or less" united, well at least not split about 50/50 like christians are.
Many christians over there are really just as Arab as their muslim neighbor, but they reject this Arab identity and try to convince themselves that they are more "European" or even that they descend right from the Phoenicians (no Arab blood with them).
Since the civil war up to now and especially right now with elections coming soon sectarian politics play the religious scaremongering card to death (basically "vote for christians to protect us from the others" and so on).
They really are some fascists redux but I can't help but feel for them: they want so much to not be Arab that they tend to be rejected by the "other Arabs", and yet for those who do migrate to Europe or the US the disappointment must be disheartening when they realise that for the "average white guy" they're just "average Arabs".
That's over simplified but maybe it will give some hint to the posters who wonder where this video comes from and what's the motivation behind it.
Chuck Grace — June 3, 2009
This video clip is well made and certainly makes a dramatic point about population growth. The shrinking population of most industrial nations is by design and personal choice. The decline of the traditional family is a large reason for a shrinking population. The decreasing family size in the USA directly corresponds with a larger number of working women outside the home. This is not a bad thing, just a fact.
I find the comments written here more interesting than the video clip. Especially the ones that compare a majority "Christian Nation" to the "Islamic Nations" and find no difference. As far as I know there are no Baptists strapping bombs to themselves to serve Jesus. Whereas I agree with most that there is a difference between Islam and a Islamic Republic, you would be silly to not see the correlation.
Indonesia is a great example of what the clip was trying to communicate. A population of close to the size of America is now a Islamic country. If you will also note, where Islam rules there is no separation of Church and State. There is a theocracy. The first to suffer are the women. No difference? I could not see my wife wearing a burka.
As a student of the Bible, I got tired of hearing the ignorant people that have not read or studied either the New Testament or the Koran compare the two in their ignorance and find no difference. The Koran cas for Jihad. The domination a victory over the infidel (all non Muslims). Jesus commands His followers to love their enemies as Christ gave himself up to death for the whole world. The contrasts are endless. As for me and my house hold I do not desire to live under a Islamic Republic.
Caitlin — June 4, 2009
Videos like this make me want to cry. Not because Muslim republics scare me, but because this video is so obviously a ginormous stonking pile of Islmaophobic propaganda doing little to veil its fear-mongering intentions with "statistics."
Let's grow up, people. Learn that Islamophobia is the new breed of anti-semitism and drop the pointless hate already.
Joe — June 30, 2009
Extreme poverty is the answer. If the best we can do with "advance" is cripple ourselves into slavery the the man on the street of old can do a better job.
John (not the apostle) — September 2, 2009
As a Christian I find this nauseating and horrifying. It sounds like the British National Party, except it changes and seems to take an American point of view. Its focus is “culture” not faith.
If the creators of this video had any Christian faith they might have remembered that Jesus said “But the gate is narrow and the way is difficult that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:14, NET Bible, free from www.bible.org). Jesus and His disciples were always a very small minority, and it would seem that Christians remained a persecuted minority until the Roman Emperor Constantine decided to become a Christian. Christians remain minorities in many countries around the world.
As for this video, a few more words from Jesus: “Watch out for false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are voracious wolves.” (Matthew 7:15, NET Bible)
Jack tasker — October 12, 2009
this is rubbish
erin — November 30, 2009
was anyone else bothered by the fact that the video lumped the republic of ireland in with the united kingdom? or that they referred to children born to muslim parents as "muslim babies?" WHAT? children are not born into a religion, especially if one believes in the christian faith, a child makes his or her own choice. thiss video was absolutely ridiculous.
Siddique — December 16, 2009
To all the bright minds out here and all the dummies (who cannot understand what is been shown)
The question to ask here is what can be done about it and why muslim religion is a threat to people of other faiths.
1) Muslim religion does not permit independent thinking, it uses force (monetary, violence, etc) to convert people, reason because they think there religion is the sole righteous way of life.
2) Muslim religion takes away your ability to think, they brain wash you. Look at the our youths in Britain, they are fighting as for islam as far as Afghanistan, have you ever wondered why?
3) To all those who are not a believer, some logical stuff for you guys. You all would agree on one fact that world's overall population is on an increase, thereby creating pressure on our existing resources. Well, islam encourages people to reproduce in abundance as many as they can, without having a slightest thought for the planet which we live in. To, all my friends out here, go and try talking to them about family planning, you can possible attract a fatwa on your head for doing that.
It is a lost case in many of the countries, that is a fact look at Germany, France, Britain these countries gave this people home to settle down, instead of being grateful, these people now want the country in which the reside to become islamic. Don't believe me go and stand near parliament building in London, it's a shocking and disgusting sight to see these people standing there and asking people to join their religion, go on the streets on Toronto, they have Van's, forcefully handing out literature to innocent by-passers.
What can we do????
Well first of all we got to keep this insane birth-rate in check, Organize protest in your country of residence, force you government to take action to intervene, open up their eyes. Ask them to stop supporting this people who are having this baby-producing fest. Ask your countries to stop people of muslim origin to migrate in to your country.
Take this as a warning to all those people who seemingly perceive this video as a gimmick. In years to come you poor souls would be standing in line with gun forced to your head to accept islam or die.
I am not in favour of extreme religion of any kind, but I write this, for the fear of losing of my soul, my integrity, and my independence.
Bruce — March 6, 2010
Not sure what we can do anyway. If it plays out we will all be under Islamic, or Muslim, or Sharia law. Women will be in veils, stoned for looking at a man, children with have their hands chopped off for stealing, etc. It would only be a matter of time. we will become slightly Muslim or very Muslim. Not a good scenario in my opinion. Not a free country. No solution either.
Iftikhar — March 28, 2010
West seriously misjudge islam-intentionally,i think..And governments across the west make their peoples to do so..Islam forces people to convert?..Then how so many peoples in lebanon or eygipt remains christians and jews still now?Those countries had been ruled by khilafah(the so called theocracy)for almost 13 century continuously.For your information,it was khalif Umor who allowed the jews to enter jerusalem,first time since roman persecution of jews,and it continued,b4 the cruseders slaughtered both muslims and jews.(we dont blame christianity4that,it was the church that to be blamed).You say we are the terrorists,because of some peoples action..Ever questioned why they become so?Just remember how many muslims were killed during the french occupation in algeria,how many were raped.This is happening still now all over the world4 three century-iraq,afganistan,pakistan,kashmir,china...5hundred thousand children were killed by imperialist US and UK in iraq,they destroyed the water supply for an easy occupation,to topple saddam-who was created by themselves once! Killing civilians is indeed a terrorist act,and that makes the US and UK the greatest terrorists! So much propaganda against islam,and it's getting intense,because islam is getting strong again,as a way of life,which challenge capitalism..but west itself will be benefited by islam..Dear brothers,think again...
lonor — May 2, 2010
we should throw out all muslims. simple as that!
Ertuğrul Genç — March 5, 2011
The conditions under which the reproduction rate falls is very well known, and has almost absolutely nothing to do with the religion or culture of the individuals in question. Although it is true that the muslim population growth rates are quite high in general,
a) I cannot see why this is a bad thing per se? (other than your established cheap anti-immigrant discourse)
b) some countries in sub-saharan Africa have rates well above 2.11, indicating a more social and economic reason for the issue
c) the same rhetoric is being used in muslim countries as well (in Turkey, for instance, of which I am a citizen), and this raises doubts about these allegations to be mere propaganda -very well executed by Hitler, Stalin, McCarthy, etc.- whereas the reality is always different than what big guys claim it to be; because any political group or branch who weels itself under pressure puts the blame on 'others', ranging from gypsies to homosexuals, from muslims to latinos, or poles in the UK, Romanians in Spain, Libyans in Italy, Caucasians in Russia, etc.
Finally, culture requires people, yes, but it doesn't reproduce itself through demographics. Sweden has a population of 9 million, Denmark 5, the Netherlands about 17, etc. yet they have world famous actors, footballers, brands, artists, musicians, writers, political figures, inventions, and so on. Making more babies is the last thing to do to protect or enhance your culture.
haya — April 11, 2011
HI, I am an arabic-chritian , i have read all ur commnets, and for anybody who defence freedom of belive,and don't belive the threat of islam, i am so sorry to tell you-living with muslims, knowing Sharia'a in depth-that you are naieve...
i agree with "iftikhar" you must know ! when islam invade or dominate country, they dont kill people or distroy their temples/churches, but they just destroy their souls, they humelate them, go to rolls of "Omar al khatab" first khalifa when he invaded jerusalem" he asked not to destroy a church, but not to fix any, not to make an extention for it, not to ring bills, christians should wear different clothes, different colors, not to wear cross, when a christian see a muslim in the road he should give him all space, muslims are allowed to marry females christian, christian males are not allowed to marry muslim woman (in arab culture this is superiority), christians should pay "jesiah" in english "penalty" ....etc
this gives you some results, islam is not direct, islam doesn't make a complete lie, only a half one, muslims want to dominate the world cause they want to have a piece of west civilization, Prophet Mohammad said" get marry...have a lot of kids.. as i will be proud of ur number among nations in the judgement day
finally, you think you know islam, will you dont have a clue !!!
Storm — June 5, 2011
Islam is the fourth beast (government) written of in the book of Daniel, "...in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth (power); it crushed (dominated) and devoured (controlled) its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns."
The vision was explained to Daniel saying, "The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king (Mahdi (anti-Christ)) will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people (Christians) and try to change the set times and the laws (still trying to determine what pertains to the set times? Tradition; or the way things have always been done?). The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time (3 1/2 years).
Very soon, Islam "will" dominate the world. It is the only ideology that is both a religion and governmental system, due to Sharia. They are not dominating just to dominate, as if they are on a power trip; they are doing so out of desperation. They believe that time is running out for them as they must prepare the world for the return of the Mahdi & Isa (Islam's prophet Jesus; who will help rid the world of evil and those who refuse to convert to Islam). Everyone on the earth MUST become Islamic or be put to death. They cannot afford just one person to not be on the same page as they are.
Very soon, you will see all the non-Islamic banking systems be converted to Islamic banking. Once Islamic banking has been implemented world wide, each individual will be required to have a chip implant in their right hand, which is dedicated in the worship of Allah. Or their forehead if the individual is lacking a right hand or has static electricity in the right hand (such as myself). Without the chip implant, you will not be able to have a job, own a home, drive a car, buy, or sell. You accepting the implant will be taken that you have converted to Islam. Right now, implant users have implants in various parts of their bodies but that will change. This will fulfill a characteristic of the fourth beast which is mentioned in Revelation 13:11-13.
All of the above is a done deal. Too late to stop it. The only thing that each person can do is make up their minds now on what they will decide to do. Convert or not convert. If you convert, you will be HIGHLY expected to force convert friends/family and anyone else or put them to death. Otherwise, not doing so will result in YOU being put to death. If you are attached to anything in this material world, it will be very hard for you to resist the conversion. Especially atheists as this life/world is all they believe they will every have so they will do what must be done to survive. Some atheists may also come to realize that the way things are going are in line with what has been written and decide to convert to Christ. But the majority will bow to Islam and convert. Even if you lip-sync the conversion and don't feel so in your heart.....it doesn't matter to Christ as you will still be considered an eternal enemy. There won't be any excuses accepted for taking the chip in your right hand.
But in all instances, make up your minds quickly because, as to paraphrase what the Apostle Paul stated, there will be a time coming very soon when Christ will cement you in your mind...wherever you are at...in your mind; make sense? It will be like taking a narcotic and waking up later to realize that you help slaughter thousands of people and were locked into it. Or on a more positive side, being locked into a state of mind where all threats on your earthly life will be meaningless compared to the rewards that await on the other side.
Nocholus — September 12, 2011
My view is world's highly selfish religeon is Islam, They want only Muslims, others they believe are enemies. They are ignorant to understand the all goods charcteristic of other religions for the betterment of mankind. Muslim leaders amend the original Qur'an when it translate into different languages for their benefit and survival. The great wonder is " Today science is developed to its highest level, and people are benefiting it, but still has blind faith in Muslim teachings and practices."
Still not clear why Islam religion dominate in the world above Buddhism ,and Hindus.
Why some people believe invisible GOD beyond the scientific findings.
Nouny — March 25, 2022