I think you're way off there. It's not that masculinity is awesome and femininity debasing. It's not about women and men, actually. It's about gays. Most men have a mortal fear of being thought of as gay. Let's take me for example - I'm your regular run of the mill have-no-problem-whatsoever-with-gays-but-petrified-at-the-thought-of-being-thought-of-as-gay liberal kinda guy. I have a sincere aversion to wearing pink, to giggling and to a bunch of other stuff that is associated (stereotypically, of course) with both women and gays. I do not, however, have any problem with a variety of motherly-chores related to my son, even though those are equally associated with women. The thing is - they're not associated with gays, because children in general are associated with hetero families. So by being the boy's mother for a while, while I'm certainly not asserting my masculinity, I am most assuredly asserting my heterosexuality, and therefore have no problem with it. I think you'll find this is applicable to most liberal heterosexual men.

So, to sum up, what's "debasing" is not femininity, but "gaiety". Which means I'm still a jerk, but at least I'm no chauvinist.

Dubi - aren't gay men stereotyped as "effeminate" or "feminine?" They "lose" their masculinity by not participating in a heterosexual relationship, or by picking up certain feminine traits. I think that it comes right back around to the feminine being the "lesser" of the two characteristics. Men who are scared of being thought of as gay are scared of being seen as less of a "real man" since gay men are associated (whether correctly or incorrectly) with feminine behaviors (like leg crossing, having an interest in clothing or hair, or chick flicks).

@Dubi:

Lesbians are having sex with the correct object for sex - another woman. That's why their existence is not such a problem.

Gays are having sex not with the correct object (a woman), but with another human being (a man), which is degrading. A human, that voluntarily humiliates himself to go into the "passive" position in sex, reserved only for women. Yuck.

So, you think that gay disgust has nothing to do with female being inferior? Think again.

I disagree, Charli. I gave an example of a clear feminine characteristic: motherhood(ness?), that men are less likely to feel embarrassed about than anything that would make them look gay. I remember a long time ago it was considered a "code" for being gay to wear an earring on a specific ear (left?). While it was, at the time, considered completely OK for men to wear earrings (at least where I lived), it was considered highly embarrassing to wear one on the (left?) ear, for fear of being misidentified as gay.

Twinsen - I don't think that gays are degraded, debased or disgusting. I just don't want people to think I'm one. Furthermore, it doesn't humiliate me when people do think I'm gay, it just makes me panic and put on a real whoa-there-fella-I'm-a-boobs-kinda-guy face.

Oh, and gimme a break with the "human being (a man)" bullshit. Of all the people I know, chauvinists included, nobody today thinks women are not "real human beings".

A girl can hug a girl without this being sexual. But for men, it is.
It's not disgusting, OK, it's just "scary". The question is: why do you panic? What is so terrible?

The idea that women should be masculine is, in my opinion, a feminist institution. I don't know any men who expect women to be masculine.

See this is the thing, it (gender relation issues) isn't a problem you usually seen on a small level. Most people really are generous enough to not make harsh judgement on someone they see who is not strictly in keeping with female vs male roles. Few people looks at a girl and say, "she not a human," because that pretty obviously contrary to the truth. It is the entirety of femininity that is considered 'not human'. But when I say 'human' what is meant is 'the acceptable mode'.

In short, it's not that individuals are saying women are to be reviled (anymore), it's that societal constructs (everything from language to our banking system, to fashion) is sending the message 'femininity is only to be displayed by these certain people at these certain acceptable times'

Charli, I have to dispute your 'feminist construct' comment. I think there was a surge during second wave, 1960s style feminists, of groups that had the idea that women should act like men to the extent that they themselves need to eschew feminine traits, although not all feminist groups at the time supported that idea (the artist Judy Chicago being a prominent one). Anyway, third wave, contemporary, feminists groups (who still differ on many subjects) rarely support that to be a feminist you should act masculine.

I would really strongly argue that the idea of 'women should act masculine' actually comes from women just looking around, seeing where the power is (in what jobs, in what behaviors, in what dress) and saying, 'hey, a,b and c are traits of powerful people, I will a,b and c too.'

@ twinsen
new flash
women are humans.

Since the clip for hugging no longer works, here's a more direct link to it:

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-give-a-great-man-to-man-hug

The link to the "hug" video no longer works, so here's another one:

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-give-a-great-man-to-man-hug

Maybe it's not that culture has determined that feminine is sucky, but rather made a bunch of sucky things feminine.

Ex: I am drinking a simple mixed drink at the bar. It took the bartender 30 seconds to pour, is tasty if not sweet and is relatively inexpensive for its potency. You are drinking a fruity blended thing which took a couple minutes to make, with some extra pointless things hanging off the rim like fruit rinds and a umbrella.

Your drink sucks.

To all the other boys in the room: if someone thinks you are homosexual, or they perceive you as being feminine, it doesn't change who you are and it shouldn't change how you feel about yourself or how you act. If you feel the need to "butch up" when someone intimates that you might be gay then you have some self esteem issues to work on.