The second one... the women's razor.

I'd take the brambles/thorns and flowers to mean women who don't shave aren't pretty, women who do shave (everywhere they are supposed to) are pretty.... just as flowers are pretty and thorns are not.

And what about the porn industry helping to introduce the idea of hairlessness in contexts of sex?

Don't forget about the women's razor with the built-in trimmer! http://www.amazon.com/Schick-Quattro-Trimstyle-Bikini-Trimmer/dp/B001TH8Q72

Negative shift.

I find the fetishization of hairlessness strange... I wonder sometimes if it is not the result of the idealization of adolescent body types.

I always thought hairlessness=adolescent=sexually "innocent"/immature/timid. But my husband, on the other hand, perceives it as shaved woman=she "takes care" of her genital zone=sexually active and not ashamed of it. I guess that both may make sense, for different people of course.

Just today I read a post about a woman in Italy that has almost been denied a smear test because she had a Brazilian wax. The doctor (a woman) told her that "her lifestyle choice was unacceptable" from a Catholic perspective.

The post, in Italian, is here - http://metilparaben.blogspot.com/2009/03/obiettori-del-pelo.html -; the blogger reporting the fact, that had happened to a friend of his, says that he will keep on posting about it as the friend could sue the hospital.

Refusing a pap smear because somebody has shaved their pubic hair? That's terrible. I take it to mean that it was "depraved" because it was clearly sexual, and yet don't women who are sexually active need pap smears even more? Way to endanger your client.

However, I don't see how shaving your pubic hair is "taking care" of yourself. Pubic hair protects your vulva from bacterial infection by blocking what can get in. It also protects the genitals from friction. It is not actually unsanitary as long as you bathe on a regular basis, which I assume most people have the sense to do. From a health perspective, it's really better to trim or let it be. It seems like the only possible benefit is that having no pubic hair makes you less likely to get crabs. I'll give you that, but I would be more worried about bacterial infection and chafing, personally.

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with shaving. It's not like it's really increasing your risk by that much, and some people prefer to be smooth down there, but I take issue with people who act like pubic shaving should be a normal act of good hygiene. That's just not true.

*I meant clearly sexual in the doctors eyes. Shaving is not necessarily sexual in my eyes. I know people who do it because it makes them feel cleaner.

I would just like to note that the so called most interesting man in the world doesn't appear to be doing any shaving anywhere, so he shouldn't really get a vote in the matter.

I find the current trend for men to shave everything as well negative - as a social requirement. Ideally men and women could shave or not shave as they genuinely chose, but sadly that's not the case today. What I especially don't like is the ads and attitudes impyling below-the-neck shaving on men is a sign of homosexuality or less-than-hypermasculine and of course that's Not Allowed. Feh.

He's the most interesting, not the most sexy. Keeping clean shaven is a cleanliness thing, it's easier to wash. Oral sex is far more practical hairfree. For men long hair makes the genitals appear smaller, fellatio less appealing and hairs get stuck and pulled out when taking off condom. Not everyone likes to have a bunch of hair in their eyes/nose/face etc. Convenient hygiene is good hygiene. Easier to wash, nothing to dry, doesn't obscure genitals, it's strange not everyone does it.

"Skip a day or two"? [I'm read this as implying that for women shaving less often than every day is practically unthinkable.] My God! When I was at my most societal-standards-pleasing determined-to-actually-shave-at-all I managed brief spurts of shaving once a week (legs; maybe a bit more often on the armpits).

Sorry if my natural body disgusts you (over the internet!), but I don't have enough hours in the day already without adding a time-consuming and unpleasant shaving ritual every bloody day. If I wanted to be cleaner, I'd let my leg and armpit hairs get some air instead of hiding them under clothing no matter how hot it is, to avoid disgusting people.

Chuck Norris lookalike seeks drunken threesome with ladies from the 1930s.

I interpret "takes care of herself" as "takes care to ensure that her body conforms to standards set by hetero men."
Fuck that.

"I interpret “takes care of herself” as “takes care to ensure that her body conforms to standards set by hetero men.”"

That's exactly what it means, since women are presumed to never be doing anything for themselves (aside from eating chocolate, for which they should feel duly ashamed), therefore everything is either to please men or in the service of children.

Fuck that, indeed.

Who are the only ones in our society with little to no leg, armpit, or pubic hair? Besides those with preceding medical conditions, pre-adolescent children! So there is no way that there is no connection. Also, by likening women to pre-adolescent children there is an argument that we are assuring their lower place on the power hierarchy because if children < adults and women = children while men = adults, through the transitive property women < men. Not that we didn't already know that.

What I find interesting is how an advertising company decides they need more sales and convince everyone that it is more hygenic if women start shaving all their body hair off.

It wasn't til the early 1900's that they started a blitz campaign to convince women that not only would it be more attractive but also healthier to shave off your hair.

And still people believe this piece of drivel that comes not from scientists nor doctors but ad men.

"Oral sex is far more practical hairfree."
I second this. It's quite unpleasant for either party to have to stop the good times to pull hairs out of their mouths.

I'd just like to say that I, too, used to be on the side that equated public trimming with pre-pubescent children. However, I recently returned to trimming after a long hiatus and found that I enjoyed sex more, as less hair meant easier acess to my clitorus and a lot less painful hair pulling. But, that's just my own personal experience and I certainly don't think others should have to agree.

I meant pubic trimming, by the way, not public. Lol!

"But, that’s just my own personal experience and I certainly don’t think others should have to agree."

exactly. Which is precisely the point. Choosing to do so from the results of testing the alternative is one thing, feeling compelled to do x because random ad dude says you have to to be a "real woman" and therefore sexxxay to random street dude, not so much.

Women shaving could also be said to be enhancing the already notable difference in hairiness between men and women, iirc.

I interpret “takes care of herself” as “takes care to ensure that her body conforms to standards set by hetero men.”
Fuck that.

no, f&@# you. i find your comments incredibly distasteful as a hetero-sexual guy who has done some trimming in the past. it seems to be a little under-represented in these comments (understandable given the user base) but there's a lot of people who trim on their own accord whether they are being sexual or not.

I interpret "Fuck that" as "Fuck heterosexual men"

"I interpret “Fuck that” as “Fuck heterosexual men”"

Of course you do, you're self-centered. She didn't mean fuck heterosexual man, she meant fuck patriarchical beauty standards (which, in case you're confused, direct women to do any number of stupid, expensive, useless and arbitrary things in order to be sexxxay to het men. Doesn't mean het men are individually at fault).

I also reject the idea that "taking care of myself" means making myself more in line with the standards of heterosexual men. (I am a woman) This is because I know better than impersonal beauty standards what I need.

That said, when I have heard people talk about "well groomed" genitals to mean ones that have been shaved, those people have mostly been women. I get angry when I hear that, as shaving one's crotch just seems to me like another requirement that women spend even more vast amounts of time on grooming than we are already expected to spend.

From where i see it, if i want to attract heterosexual men, i need to do things that those men find attractive.

Of course I'm self-centered, I'm a guy. Right? You need to examine your stereotypes.

COOL

Before everyone gets so down on "het men" lets remember that a lot of trends originate with the fashion industry. The emaciated, hairless waifs seen on the runway would seem to emulate "twinks". I would suggest that gay men have a lot to do with promoting this look. Anyway, who cares? Can we just stop pointing fingers? If you don't want to shave, don't. For the record, I do and that doesn't make me angry at the homo-patriarchy who run the fashion industry.

I am male (although I'm not very masculine at all), and I have a huge sexual fetish for body hair removal. Not only for being hairless, but also for the act of shaving. My last gf liked it, too, so we shaved each other in the bathtub on a regular basis.

I think it's all a matter of choice. I know many men who like their women hairier, I also know women who like men with completely hairless bodies.

On the other hand, I also have a huge sexual fetish for long hair on the head - and with my own hair being as long as it is, I often get mistaken for a woman (which I find rather amusing).

Well it doesn't feel good that society is pressuring people to shave or not to shave. And it is sad to see this 'propaganda' represented in ads. There have been times where men and women removed their facial hair. Eyebrows and hairline included.

And now a useless anecdote: But I have to be honest here...body hair (especially on men in my experience) can irritate and disturb love making in nummerous ways.

Chest and leg hair itches terribly against my skin. It is not very romantic if I have to scratch myself agressively every two minutes. Then there are the problems with taking off condoms and the excrusiating pain that results from it. Fellatio becomes less pleasant with hairs and hair on the penis can make penetration sometimes difficult (but maybe I'm just very sensitive). Don't let me talk about bringing whipped cream or chocolate sauce in the bedroom, because that becomes the biggest drama combined with genital hair. To recieve oral sex whil you are shaved feels a lot better in my opinion. There is more sensitivity because there is no hair barriere. My boyfriend and I are the defiant type and we often refuse what society expect from us...but we are not going to make our sexlife less comfortable just to make a silent statement.

bah. people now get their sex ed and nude beauty stereotype imagery from demented internet porn, and people mimic what they see. It's just part of what our species does. And so, when porn has nothing but hairless freaks forking in a totally loveless way, that's what people want to look like and even act like.

Manipulating people into thinking or doing something is really quite easy, not that hte hairless porn thing is some kind of conspiracy like say the convincing of the anti-war pre-1917 american population that fighting in WWI was a good idea.

And after that, people make up their own self told lies as to why they are doing or thinking something (it's cleaner, it feels better, hair gets stuck in my teeth). btw if you're constantly getting hair stuck in your teeth while giving oral sex, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG, or maybe you should wait until his/her chemo is over.

Thankfully this bizzare hairless fetish is much less damaging than the male circumcision trope that caused millions of mutilated males.

According to my boyfriend and his brothers (all of whom played sports in high school, ranging from 1-14 years ago), most younger men shave their chest and pubic hair (underarm hair is more iffy, for some reason).

They actually got into an argument with their mom about it, because she was saying no man should ever shave their chests and they were all saying, "Oh come on, everyone does now."