Dolores R. sent us a photo from Olvera St. in downtown Los Angeles. Olvera Street is a historic site/tourist attraction that commemorates a pueblo founded in 1781. Some call it the birthplace of Los Angeles.
The photo is of a sign pleading with visitors to behave. It is written in both Spanish and English but, as Dolores observes, the message in each language is slightly different (translation below).
Dolores explains:
Translation is mostly the same, with the exception of the part regarding the plants. The English says, “Do not touch plants.”
The Spanish version says (literal translation), “Abstain from touching anything, cutting or etching names in the cactus.”
Thoughts?
See also our post documenting differences in the English and Spanish versions of a Kaiser pamphlet for new moms (hint: only one of them emphasizes sterilization).
Lisa Wade, PhD is an Associate Professor at Tulane University. She is the author of American Hookup, a book about college sexual culture; a textbook about gender; and a forthcoming introductory text: Terrible Magnificent Sociology. You can follow her on Twitter and Instagram.
Comments 44
MissDisco — November 7, 2010
The Spanish are pedants?
larrycwilson — November 7, 2010
Thoughts about what?
Melissa — November 7, 2010
Given the "related" link to Kaiser new mom pamphlets, I'm guessing we're supposed to be discussing that they said not to touch "anything" in Spanish, where they did not in English?
Julia — November 7, 2010
It is a language thing, you can observe that the English language is much more direct than the Spanish or Portuguese language (I am brazilian). Besides that, we have more words to describe things and it is considered impolite to be giving orders that way (so direct), that is way it is used more words in a different tone to say the same thing. I am sorry for my English.
alfanje — November 7, 2010
Actually, the Spanish version says "abstain from NOT touching anything", so if you interpret it literally, it is an invitation/order to touch everything.
There are some other grammatical mistakes and total lack of accents (´) and ñ, but still it seems to me that it has been written by some not-very-cultured native speaker provided with the wrong software/keyboard. The English one, I dunno.
Jamie — November 7, 2010
I saw in England the difference in warnings -- Instead of "Keep hands inside vehicle!" warnings read "You may incur injury from putting hands or arms outside this vehicle."
Or "Stay away from the edge of the platform" was "Mind the Gap."
It is interesting as an English prof who studies language and its effects. In the US, we warn people not to do things with direct imperatives, hoping the effect is to... what? scare people into not doing them? Refer to an authority beyond them that demands this behavior?
In many other cultures, warnings include consequences of actions, or are worded a lot less directly. Hoping, I assume, that readers will reason that they shouldn't hang their hands out the window. The Mind the Gap is a great example of (extreme?) politeness as opposed to the directness of American warnings. To me, the latter examples rely on individuals to make somewhat informed decisions based on their own authority of reason or ... politeness? Not sure.
But it is interesting, despite some readers who seem to grumble that this blog makes too much of things. I like to think about this stuff.
Erin — November 7, 2010
Not that this is at all the point, but what on earth is a confetti egg and why would it be important enough to ban?
D'Anne — November 7, 2010
No cascarones sucks. Why pick on them?
rose — November 7, 2010
i have seen this before, where the english version and the spanish version are different. this is racist.
Sue — November 7, 2010
Is it possible that the Spanish-language version is addressing specific problems of the past? I'm not saying I approve, just asking.
AnaMarie — November 7, 2010
It seems to me that in this, and in the Kaiser pamphlet linked, it's more likely you who are being less sensitive to the cultural differences between the different offerings. In both, the Spanish version is more conversational, less direct, while the English versions simply list a series of classes or directions. The Kaiser pamphlet discusses more popular courses offered in Spanish, and gives more information about the courses, such as when in your pregnancy you should take them. It seems to me like the Spanish versions tend to have more thoroughly discussed and again, conversational, directions or explanations rather than short and authoritative. I believe if you don't like what's being discussed in pretty much every translation you find between any two languages, you can find something that you can see either as racist, or, as culturally sensitive, depending on how you want to see it.
Bonnie — November 7, 2010
Thanks for posting this item! I think that the difference that you pointed out regarding not carving names in cacti is actually linked to a discourse about how undocumented migrants passing through the Mexico-US border "deface" or "defile" cacti by marking them. (And, yes, I do mean to context those words by placing them in quotes.) It's interesting to see this kind of reference made outside of national protected areas. (And Juanita Sundberg and I have written about "cactus carvings" as part of a larger discourse wherein migrants are framed as non-deserving of rights. We found a lot of specific references to cactus carvings in government documents, but no specific references to the act in academic lit. If anyone knows of any, I'd like to read them. Thanks!)
kibbls — November 8, 2010
It seems to me that the extra instruction are an artifact of the spanish version being written in a more wordy, conversational manner altogether.
I wonder if the english version is so simple and direct because it is designed not just for English speakers but is expected to be the one read by people for whom neither English nor Spanish is their first language.
Then again, i think the english version makes a much more effective sign because you can see at a glance what it says - you don't need to read a whole paragraph to find out what the different rules are.
Maybe they expect Spanish speakers to be more conscientious?
Brenope — November 8, 2010
It is impossible to do a direct word for word translation from Spanish to English or vice versa. In my Spanish class, I learned that Spanish uses 20% more words to say the same thing that English says with fewer words. They are different languages, and apparently, English uses direct imperatives in a way that would not be appropriate in Spanish. Also, there is the simple fact that while Americans may spray paint things, they do not have an idea that they can carve on cacti, but perhaps this is a problem in other areas. They should not have included the cacti carving prohibition, because bilingual Americans will suddenly realize that they CAN carve up cacti--one more thing for us to deface.
Bakiryu — November 8, 2010
The Spanish is a bit difficult to understand and it uses some words in different dialects. I'm a native Spanish speaker but I have no idea what "nopales" and "cascarones" are. I think this is written in a Mexican or Southern European version of Spanish, since there are words and phrasings that people speaking my particular variant would not use: "Asimismo" and just general wording.
robert — November 8, 2010
Good gravy! the comments on this partiular blog article are so much more interesting than the blog itself. Who decided that museum signs were of any interest at all. I don't even read them when I am in a museum.
Hector — November 13, 2010
UNDERSTANDING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES:
It's clear to me that there is a mistake in the translation. To abstain from (Abstenerse de) is a negative verb that is used in Spanish public signs to give advice, a warning or to request a petition instead of forbidding, prohibiting or baning someone from doing something. It's use frequently with "rogar" (to beg/ to ask).
Then, the most appropriate translation should be:
"Rogamos a todas las personas que vengan a visitarnos ABSTENERSE DE tocar, cortar o grabar nombres en los árboles."
Translation: "We ask/beg everyone to abstain from touching, cutting or carving names in the trees."
It doesn't look like a command or an order. It sounds very polite.
It should be rude to say: "No toque, corte o grabe nombres en los árboles."
The difference is subtle but very comprehensible for Spanish/Hispanics people. It's one of the many cultural differences between American and Hispanics/Latinos.
Note: Although the use of double negatives is appropriated in the Spanish language (in fact,a double negative is a strong negative), in this particular case, the use of "abstenerse" (to abstain) with the adverb NO result in a positive, telling you to do the opposite one that you don't want to.
So "abstenerse de no tocar" = Abstaining from no touching => touching
Brianna — May 22, 2012
Yes, thank you for the very specific explanation, Hector. I completely agree that it is a translation issue. I saw these strange sounding translations all over China when I lived there last summer. Although not as derogatory in tone, one of my favorites was "treasure your life, do not pat the pond," which was meant to warn against drowning.
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oliverelijah — June 6, 2023
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