No credit for using "medium" instead of "normal?"

L'Oréal has a similar setup for choosing a cosmetics color palette:

http://www.loreal-paris.co.uk/cosmetics/studio-secrets.aspx#/home

Click on "My Studio" on the right to find yours, and you have to choose between "Blonde", "Light brunette", "Dark brunette" and "Dark skin tones". Apart from having 3 categories relating to hair color for Caucasian women and one lone category for the medium to dark-skinned women, it seems people like me, with natural dark hair and blue eyes/ pasty white complexions, don't exist.

And I always thought I had a winter face =_=

@scapino I'm guessing (perhaps unjustly) that Sephora's "normal" would be closer to "light" than "medium."

As a blindingly pasty descendent of Dutch/Irish/English ancestors, "ivory" tends to look like yellow paint on my face ("porcelain" usually works, even though it makes me feel like I'm going to shatter). So, labeling aside, I don't think the light/medium distinctions are unfair. But there should definitely be at least one more category past "dark", maybe two.

The "dark" lady's facial features most definitely looks South Asian to me, not at all stereotypically Caucasian. Reminds me of this post: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/10/24/what-does-black-and-white-look-like-anyway/

lol, the "Dark" picture is not even that dark. THIS is dark.

http://www.jamati.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/alek_25.jpg

I could say something substantive, but I'd rather point out that the "light" and "medium" makeup looks distractingly terrible. The lady on the left is apparently jaundiced, and the one in the middle is a watermelon, I guess? :p

I am not bothered by the facial features at all (the 'dark' woman may well be Caucasian, which is the major issue). I AM bothered by the fact that as a light skinned, half-white, half black woman, half the makeup companies don't have makeup dark enough for me, and many that do have my tone as the absolute darkest. I am not only lighter than most black people, I'm lighter than a good chunk of Hispanics, Asians, Arabs, etc, and at least a handful of whites or certain ethnicities. Makeup companies are leaving a good chunk of their target audience out in the cold. And open any fashion magazine professing to have makeup and hair advice for EVERYONE. Often, there are four skin tones shown: really pale white girl, less pale white girl, tanner white girl OR light skinned Asian or Hispanic girl, and a black or possibly Hispanic girl with pretty fair skin. In hair, it's for long straight hair, long wavy hair, long 'curly' hair (that's still actually just wavy), and if you're LUCKY, they'll do long relaxed hair with a picture of a girl who's obviously got a weave (because exactly zero people in the world have curly hair, and all black women have ass-length weaves; girls with short hair, but ONLY short straight hair, can have a special every couple months).

As someone with a darker complexion, I find that the majority of cosmetics lines offer few shades to work with above whatever they define the "medium" range to be. Being mixed race, I wonder how dark-complected African American women (or men) ever find foundation that really fits their skin tones.

This may not be entirely relevant, but does anyone else find it odd that as the pictures progress from light to dark, the models' eyes become increasingly more open and their mouths become more closed? Of course, there are only three pictures, so it may be coincidence-- but it seems to me that they were attempting to capture a sexyface on the light model, an almost serious expression on the dark model, and something in between on the medium model (though I just think she looks sleepy).

sadly finding equity in fashion is like looking for a black man at a KKK meeting sure you'll find one but they won't be there for long. "Stereotypically Caucasian" how is that Irish, Asian, and African sure no Nubian goddesses but not Mediterranean Indian of Spanish either. and this is just cosmetics I would start on clothing. thankfully all fashion changes. who wears doe eyes still?

Well, that sucks. I can never find foundation dark enough, so I'm not really surprised.

Well... isn't the real question here -- Why are all of you women wearing make-up? To look beautiful for *who*? For yourself... isn't this akin to "I got the breast implants for ME!"

I think you are all beautiful created in the image of the Mother Goddess. No need to tart yourself up with Sephora's products. (Well, on second thought, some of you need a little work in the morning!)

I joke. I joke.

Sephora's advertisements don't do nearly as good a job representing different skin tones as the cosmetic brands themselves, especially those with a focus on foundation. This ad is ultimately just shilling "summery" styles of eye makeup, they might as well have just left the bit about skin tone out of it.

How about the strange color names for foundations? In the U.S., common shades include Ivory, Porcelain, Champagne. None of those are a human skin tone, not really. I know they're evoking a feeling rather than a literal color, but many of those words are actual color names which don't bear any resemblance to the makeup shade. People's skin is not the color of an elephant tusk, or even the generally recognized paint color known as ivory.

The "medium" model has turned up in at least one other email that I have gotten from Sephora. She is white, and her hair color is either dark blonde or light brunette; it looks darker in this image than in the others I have seen.

Did anyone else notice that their noses get bigger as their skin tone gets darker? Think that was intentional, to equate fairness (color) with delicateness?

im just throwing this out there, although i think that when people want to see racial or gender bias, they often wont accept any other possibilities.

these (Sephora and co.) are companies that aim to make profit by selling products. if there was suddenly 200 million very black women in the market -like the US- who wanted to by a very dark foundation... i would like to believe they would very quickly make some (more) available. just because they want to make money so badly. i dont think they care if they sell green foundations, as long as they SELL.

in capitalism the balance of demand and supply is usually pretty good, and target market wealth, size etc are some parts of the whole equation. so, are we really believing that Sephora and L'Oreal and others don't sell dark enough foundations cos...i dunno, they they are racist or something? they rather adore the white ideal than tap on a goldmine - assuming there is one? they do their market researches and whatnot...yet they dont have very dark shades. hmm.

someone also pointed out that very light foundations are hard to find. in my life i have found this to be very true, many brands dont carry anything light enough for me. perhaps im an idiot but ive been thinking its just cos there arent ENOUGH of us 'super pales' out there. these products are for the mass market. they need to sell millions of each bottle to make it worthwhile of production. finally, there are more expensive brands like MAC and Joe Blasco for example that have nearly all the skin tones in the world, i think around 100 tones each.

someone also commented on foundation names, how they dont resemble real skin colors at all (ivory, porcelain...). come on. what should they be called, something picked up from the HTML color chart, to be as precise as possible? or CMYK names or RGB codes like 233-232-177? how about "very pale yellowish eggshell"? what would make us happy regarding foundation names?? while porcelain might not be scientifically exact to describe my skin color, it easily gives me an idea that it might fit me, cos, well, im pretty pale/white.

At the risk of re-opening Pandora's box, why is Tyler a douchebag? Is it because he's a guy? I thought the same thing when I saw the ad: just don't buy into that crap. We're perfectly fine the way we are. Will I be called a douchebag too? Or is my opinion valid because I'm female?

While I TOTALLY agree that women of color (indeed, ANY women) who choose to wear make-up should absolutely have products available that match their skin color, in the end I think it's important to question why we wear make-up in the first place. And isn't the reason that we think it makes us look "better"? (And "better" is such a loaded concept....)

I have nothing at all against make-up or anyone who wears it. I wear it too, on occasion. I just think it's important to realize that thinking you *need* it is buying into a system that makes us think we're not okay the way we are.

I suppose that, after 45 years, two kids and ten years of a pretty hard life, looking "pretty" is just not the priority it was when I was in my 20s or even 30s. Being pretty - or prettier, with make-up - doesn't make me a good person, or even a better person, or smarter, or kinder, or any of the other things that really matter. Long as I'm happy with the way I look and the person I have become, I'm plenty pretty, with or without make-up.

So back to my question: why is Tyler a douchebag for saying that women don't need to tart themselves up with Sephora's products? I agree with him. So either he's a douchebag because he's male and dared to express his opinion that women are beautiful the way they are, or everyone who shares this opinion is? I don't think it's the male gaze (or "some dude") defining beauty standards, it's the cosmetics companies who are guilty of that - and in the name of profit to boot - and they are the ones deserving of our ire.

For what it's worth, what I've witnessed of Sephora internally is very diverse, and focused on customer service. If customers really keep on them, they'll likely listen. Partially it's the running of things, and partially the design ends of things, too. Definitely give them specific feedback!

Ed, men aren't allowed to express opinions on this site. Brown-nosing and self-flagellation only. I spent 6 weeks or so earlier this year working my way through the Soc Images archive and the near-hysterical abuse heaped upon Tyler is absolutely typical. As is the fact that abuse was the immediate and only response, without any pretence of actually addressing the substance of his post (or even, you know, just saying "that's not on-topic"). It drove me away, and when I come back for a quick visit the first thing I see is more of the same.

Fox, I never wear makeup and it's not because of 'privilege' but because I don't have the patience, money or inclination. I see lots of other women every day who don't wear it either. I have never had anybody say a word about my lack of face paint, nor have I ever had problems getting a job. Kindly name these companies that enforce makeup standards on female employees. I very much doubt if most men even noticed I wasn't wearing makeup. In my experience it just isn't that important to them; I can't recall _ever_ hearing a man admire the makeup on a woman. So what if a few media commenters might go crazy if Hilary Clinton didn't wear makeup? they go crazy over all kinds of stupid things. Are you seriously claiming that she'd lose her job if she stopped painting herself?

@ Tyler

I feel like one man to another, I should express empathy.

I'm so sorry things are so hard for you. I'm sorry the angry feminists spend all their time excluding you from conversations about make-up. I know that as a man who only occasionally uses cosmetics, it's completely frustrating that people don't get your inalienable right as a man to take a discussion on racism in the cosmetics industry and turn it into a "joke" about how women shouldn't wear make-up cause you think they're gorgeous and further into a discussion about how feminists are *so* mean to men like you who just want to make fun of women who wear make up or get breast implants. It must be really difficult in your daily life to be a man when the women on the internet are so abusive towards you. I'm further sorry they don't understand your opinion that feminism is only a starting point to being a clear thinking human being like you, and that they don't even appreciate you throwing them a bone and stating that there is a lot material in feminism. Further, I'm sorry the people commenting on this thread don't understand your humor or the fact that sarcasm makes it ok to say and do anything. I'm sorry they don't recognize your mastery of ironic comedy and the right that gives you to ridicule women and their decisions about cosmetics.

Most of all, I'm super sorry no one here seems to understand that you, as a man, recognize the existence of male privilege, so you have an inalienable right to come on the forum and exercise it. I mean, where's your cookie?

It's time to turn that amazing critical mind and understanding that is light years ahead of feminists on yourself.

And for the record @photodancer, I'm not brown nosing. I actually agree with what has been said, and I'm sure those people challenging Tyler will at some point challenge me when I say something stupid about gender, and I'll be sure to check them if they say something about neurodivergency that pisses me off. Privilege can only be deconstructed if folks learn to lean into discomfort and take a little abuse.

@ Tyler

Again, I'm sorry that you find "this painful post-modernist rejection of norms" to be so difficult. I'm sorry people on this board expect you to inconvenience yourself by having to think about experiences other than your own or consider the impact of your statements on others. That must be really difficult.

Possibly some people are objecting to the entitlement you displayed when you assumed it would be alright to make a joke at the expense of women? The assumption that as men, we can make fun of women (and potentially demean them) whenever, wherever and however we want without anyone objecting is an exercise of male privilege. Further, the assertion that women who object to things men say (or in this case, object to being made fun of) are "absurd" or "ridiculous" or other euphemisms for "crazy" or "irrational" or "stupid" is an exercise in male privilege. Humor is difficult. Humor about things that we do not personally experience is doubly so. If your intent in your initial post was to be humorous, then you failed. When making a bad joke, the critical person, aware of all of their entitlements, privileges and prejudices as you claim to be, apologizes and attempts to understand where their humor failed by listening to what others have to say. They do not get defensive and continue to attempt to throw their weight around.

And before you say that women get to make fun of men in any way they want all the time with no consequence, consider the recent assault of Kat Stacks for belittling a man's sexual prowess and consider the fact that this is just the tip of the ice berg and an extreme example. Also consider the fact that you have previously stated that male privilege exists and consider how that may play out in these situations.

Also I think your statement that privilege requires "the assent of the other" demonstrates a lack of understanding of privilege. Oppressed people are not to blame for their oppression. I honestly find that kind of victim blaming, even if unintentional in this case, appalling. Possibly the reactions of some of your fellow commenters that you object so strongly to is a refusal to assent to your privilege and you have merely been demonstrating a repeated pattern of behavior displayed by men when women object to being made fun of or otherwise speak their minds?

As a man, I have never felt excluded from any conversation in these or any other forums. It is fairly easy, as you have demonstrated, for men to use their privilege to derail a conversation on the internet and make it all about them. How has anyone excluded you? Have you been banned from commenting? Has someone threatened you with physical harm if you speak your mind? I'm very confused, because you keep on saying people won't let you speak, but you keep on talking. Honestly, men say these types of things all the time when challenged by feminists, and what it really looks like to me, is that you don't like women talking back.

Again, I'm sorry that people don't seem to recognize that you're an enlightened male and so therefore can say and do whatever you want and women have no right to object.

I think Tyler's "joke" was indeed out of line. Something about "tart yourself up" if you wear make-up and that some women might need it in the morning. I don't remember what the joke was exactly. Yes, it was in poor taste and as a man, he obviously does not understand how living in a patriarchy makes many women rightfully filled with rage.

However, to bring back his original comment. Although we have all questioned this in one way or another, I don't think women talk enough about WHY we wear make-up. I think women need to talk about it more - OUT LOUD - with men and with women. A simple correction to his ignorant "joking" would have done wonders. Whites, Men, Heterosexuals and other in privileged positions often use "jokes" to make racist, sexist, homophobic comments. However, we need to be forming coalitions with men not telling them they're idiots and leaving it at that. I'm glad to know that Tyler is looking at sociological images and reading comments by so many intelligent women. Perhaps he'll learn a thing or two. No, I do not want to be a "mother" to every man out there by explaining why they are naive or wrong. Most will never understand because it is their privilege not to. However, as a woman of color, I have had to explain to many, many white women how their actions are racist (and often classist). Most of the time they are shocked. It's just not something they have to think about. But unless I point it out and offer a different path, they're not going to change or think differently. How many of you live in all white neighborhoods and go to mostly or all white schools? Do you challenge that? How many of you have honest in-depth discussion about white supremacy (in reference to this institutionalized racist social system we live in) To question racial equality in advertising is wonderful, but we also need to question the capitalist system behind it and how all women, black white and other are targeted as inferior. I gave up wearing make-up about 4 months ago. It was one of the toughest decisions I have ever had to make and I struggle with it on a daily basis because I too live in this society where women are constantly judged by what they look like. I have severe acne scars that may prevent me from getting a job but I have the class privilege to be able to make that decision and risk not getting a certain job. Not all women have that privilege. If you do have that privilege, however, I would ask that you talk more about why you wear make-up and how else you could spend that money. I have no problem with other women wearing make-up whether it's to avoid the questions about "looking ill" or you just like to "paint your face." But, I do think Tyler makes one small point that I do not think gets talked about enough. Maybe women with the privilege of a college education from fine liberal arts institutions talk about it a lot, but certainly not all women do.

"Iman, Posner, Black Opal, Dermablend, Emani, Flori Roberts, Makari, Marvala, Urban Decay, and Zuri" Try google. The majority of these products are found in drugstores or lower end department stores, I'm not even going to name the higher end ones or the fact that you can have your makeup custom blended for your skin tone. Okay, MAC, but that's it! Pictures like the one that is subject of this post are not new. It is only marginally better than it was 20 years and and is a huge factor in why I stopped buying certain magazines and other products from these manufacturers. But overall, it has gotten nearly 100% percent better than it was but don't expect them to advertise to WOC.

Cosmetics and hair care products for women of color in the U.S. (and globally) is a billion dollar/year business largely controlled today by white owned companies yet very few people, including black women are aware of it. WOC seriously, stop buying cosmetics directed toward white women, stop reading company sponsored articles and buying their stuff, just stop, THEY ARE NOT SPEAKING TO YOU, they will never be speaking to you (except to offer "skin lighteners"), they do not care. There are two perceptions at work here: 1. white women do not/will not consciously emulate black women unless and until they co-opt whatever it is and decide it belongs to them (i.e., lip plumping/implants, butt implants, spray or incessant tanning) AND then it becomes acceptable, desirable, NORMATIVE (presto chango abracadabra!) and they are the privileged majority so advertisers pander to them; and 2. black women and other certain women of color are inherently unattractive so why bother to advertise them even though we manufacture and sell them the majority of the products they use? It's Orwellian.

This reminds me of when I was in grad school and a friend and I dubbed Loreal's True Match makeup "False Match" because she was too dark to wear any of the foundations and I was too pale. I'm so fucking chalky, I have to buy my foundation from a specialty goth makeup website because the stuff you can find in stores are all too yellow or pink for me.

I hate that. I also once new a woman of East Asian ancestry who had a child with a man of Northern European ancestry, this woman was almost in a panic about her child needing Vitamin D supplementation due to being "dark".
My blonde blue eyed coworker frequently refers to her daughters and 1/4 Asian grandson as dark. I'm like- they are white and by definition aren't dark. Even at their darkest most white people aren't dark, UNLESS we are exclusing most of humanity from the color scale.

I am light tan, in the Dark Caucasian range. My makeup is all "medium", the "dark" makeup I see rarely gets dark enough to cover the full range of people past Halle Berry and onward to Alex Wek.It has to be frustrating. I know when I was young, finding a foundation that was yellow was a struggle, but at least the other stuff- lipstick,blush etc. was appropriate. To have almost nothing match has to be a pain

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