Kelly sent in a photo she took of a flyer she found on her car windshield recently. The flyer advertised an event at a local bar:
Notice that women ladies paid no cover all night, but men paid $5. In addition, men had to be 21 to get in, but women only had to be 18. And from 8-10 p.m. Sex on the Beach drinks, stereotyped as girly, were free.
It’s a particularly striking example of how bars use women as lures to get men in to buy lots of drinks. Ladies’ nights technically discriminate against men, who have to pay a cover while women don’t. But at the same time, women are being used by the bars letting them in for free.
Why let in women who can’t legally drink but not men of the same age? Because these establishments don’t see women as the real money-making customers. Letting some women in who might take up tables without buying expensive drinks is worth it if it gives the bar a reputation for having hot female patrons and, as a result, draws in men who will buy drinks, both for themselves and for women.
This works because of gendered norms in which men actively pursue and buy things for women they’re interested in, but not vice versa, and that men date younger women more than women date younger men. Given these assumptions, there’s no point in (intentionally) allowing underage men in or to let men in for free while charging women. The norms of dating make it unlikely that groups of women would show up and buy enough drinks for themselves and the men in the bar to make up for the free drinks the guys drank or the waived cover charges.
We see ladies’ nights much more frequently than guys’ nights or whatever the equivalent would be because patterns of dating and sexual interest make women passive players whose job is to attract male attention, largely by paying attention to how they look and dress. Men’s job is to see a woman they find attractive and then pursue her, partially by paying for drinks, dinner, movies, etc.
And bars such as this one capitalize on this by sacrificing some profits (through free drinks and no cover) to get more women to come in and as a result attract the male customers they count on to spend the majority of the money. Gendered norms of dating thus provide a pretty good marketing strategy for bars.
Comments 75
Jirka — July 3, 2010
Under the equal policy, there would be way more men than women at the bar. If you let girls in free (and lower the age so that there is a bigger target group), the gender ratio equalizes. Men are happier, because now there are more women. Most women are happier, because they got in free (and there are still enough men). The owner is happier, because guests spend more (otherwise he/she wouldn't do it). No one is really "using" anyone, this is just a result of free market and optimizing behavior, all people involved are free to go somewhere else.
Benjamin Geer — July 3, 2010
When I lived in New York and tried to go out to bars with my male friends, it was often impossible to get a bar, because the bouncer at the door would simply refuse entry to any men not accompanied by women. Groups of women without men were allowed to enter. This doesn't quite make sense to me. I understand that the point is to maximise the number of women in the bar in order to minimise the competition between men for the women present in the bar, and thus to make the men feel that they have a chance of meeting a woman there. But how many men know women who are willing to go with them to a bar where there are presumably many women and few men, just so the men can try to meet other women?
Benjamin Geer — July 3, 2010
Typo in my comment above: "get a bar" should be "get into a bar".
jen — July 3, 2010
In my experience, the bars that have Ladies nights are usually 'meat markets' - meaning that if you are a woman and you go there you WILL get hit on (which is not really that much of a compliment when you realize the the guy that hits on you would have hit on pretty much anything female that walked in the door). I would suggest that it's harder to get women than men to go to this kind of bar because being treated as if you were prey is not actually that much fun. I personally never go to these places because you aren't left to enjoy a drink or a dance in peace, unless you are chaperoned by a male friend you bet approached by a succession of men. Men are the 'real' customers and women are the thing being sold - just as with television advertisers are the real customers and viewers are the thing being sold.
Rajio — July 3, 2010
Wow a lot of the commenters have really low opinions of men who want to go out and might find a female attractive. Listen to yourselves!
Megan — July 3, 2010
I do think that it's important to note the discriminatory aspects of ladies' nights. Here in New Jersey, a court case did in fact find them illegal in 2004--as far as I understand it, this ruling forbids different pricing at the door, but I've still seen gender-based pricing at the bar.
There was one particular bar in college that everyone went to, so generally you were going there to see people you already knew (not to enroll yourself in a meat market of strangers). Yet, sometimes, the bouncers would let ladies in for free at the door even though there was a cover posted. I never really understood that--we were already there, so why not just make the money? But I guess it builds a regular customer base and that's what they're in it for.
Jirka, I get your economic arguments, but you must know then that price discrimination lives in a gray area in your economies and legal systems. We agree with two-price tariffs when we see a "good reason"--off-peak pricing, for example, or a discount admission for kids (because they're smaller!) or senior citizens (because they're on a fixed income). But a lot of us don't think gender is a "good reason" to price differently, and that can't possibly be too hard to understand...
jen — July 3, 2010
Just for the record: when I go to a bar, either I'm with friends in which case I'm there to talk to my friends, or, most often, I'm there because I want to chill out, being at home isn't relaxing for me because I work from home and if I'm at home I'll think of a million tasks I should be doing. I would go to a cafe except that cafes often aren't open in the evening. I often bring a book or a laptop. Sometimes men approach me. Of the men that do, about one in five is respectful, by which I mean when I say that I'd prefer to be alone they go away. But the other 4 out of 5 will hang around and try to convince me to talk to them, refusing to believe that I don't want to, and this is basically harassment - there is nothing I could say that would make these men leave me alone, which means it's very hard for me to find a public place where I can safely relax. Men, try to imagine what it would be like to be constantly hunted, with no escape! And if you are the respectful 1 in 5 that's awesome, and I'm sure you will find a really nice woman who does want to talk to you at some point. But if you're getting miffed about women having a 'low opinion of men', well, please try to remember what we have to put up with from the other 4 in 5, and remember that we don't have any way of knowing that you are one of the good ones!
Simone Lovelace — July 3, 2010
http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/
To all the guys who don't understand why we women are so angry: I suggest you read this.
I don't necessarily agree with the core argument about women wanting space because they're worried about the risk a harassment or rape. I think a lot of women want their own space just because they're people, and they want their own space.
But the step-by-step instructions on how to respect a woman's personal space--and the ensuing discussion of how frequently men fail to do--is extremely good.
Basically, men have a tendency to think that women somehow owe them attention. We don't. And we deserve to have our boundaries respected--yes, even at 1:00 am in the club.
Syd — July 3, 2010
As someone who'd probably actually benefit from this (female, under 21 but over 18), it still creeps me out, specifically the part where 18+ girls can get in. Every time I see Ladies' Night posters, they're explicitly 21+, unless they're in a place where you can enter, but not drink in, a bar at age 18, 19 or whatever. It seems to be saying 'men over with IDs, come find the barely legal college freshman, or even high school senior, of your dreams! Slip her a few drinks! She's younger than you and probably inexperienced in the bar scene, so go for it!' That bother's me much more than the concept of 'ladies' night,' honestly. Here, there is a distinct power dynamic gap.
SC — July 3, 2010
I'm always wary of the claim that "I dress this way just because I like it; I'm not trying to attract men." (I'm not specifically referencing anyone's comment here - I haven't checked to see if they apply)
What we "like" is informed by society's images of beauty and attractiveness. Sure, I might like the way a particular skirt moves and feels, but I'm only really going to like it enough to wear it out if I think it makes me look good, too. And at this point, I think our society allows for a range of appearances that are attractive. (I don't think I've ever heard that from anybody else, but I think it's true - many body types can be deemed attractive).
At one point in my life, I was looking to meet men, and I made sure I looked damned good. But at other times, I was either with a partner or with friends & not looking to interact with anyone else. Guess what. I still wanted to look good. And yes, there's still an element of wanting to look sexually attractive that was bound up in that ideal.
I think much of the time, when women talk about just wanting to get dressed up for ourselves, it's wrapped up in wanting to celebrate our health and attractiveness. So it's not a signal that we want to hook up on a particular occasion. Maybe we don't. But I don't see much use in denying that we want to be sexually attractive. Whether it's for men, women, or both.
My guess is that if a woman wears something overtly sexy (basically, anything showing lots of skin or looking like it would come off really easily), she wants sexual attention. But if she's obviously wrapped up in conversation with her own party, she may not want to be approached. If it's not as clear-cut, then a polite approach is likely to be welcome, or at least not offensive. On the flip side, I think it's unfair to be offended at being approached, as long as it's respectful.
Benjamin Geer — July 4, 2010
I think the sociological concept of "habitus" can account for much of what's being said here. A habitus is a coherent, durable set of concepts and embodied dispositions that shapes perception and guides action. You (male or female) can have the concept that bars are fun places to spend the evening, and you can be disposed to behave in certain ways in bars and wear certain kinds of clothing there. You therefore go to bars for fun, wearing clothes that you don't wear elsewhere. This same habitus can serve your interests in different ways without you consciously being aware of it. If you're open to meeting a sexual partner, it can help with that. If not, it can still get you compliments from your friends, as well as flattering attention from strangers (of the non-creepy variety) that can make you feel good about yourself. Maybe in some situations (e.g. if you just want to be left alone), this habitus serves no purpose at all, but it still guides your actions, because it's part of you. However, if you look at the customers of bars overall, I'm sure you'll find a lot of singles who meet sexual partners there. So on average, this "bar habitus" objectively tends to be a strategy for finding sexual partners, even if it doesn't produce that effect on every occasion. So far, all this applies to both men and women. But men and women are expected to find sexual partners in different ways. Men are expected to go looking for someone and take the initiative, and women aren't. A woman who openly acknowledges that she likes to go out to bars and get picked up by men, especially for casual sex, is likely to be seen as a slut. Hence my hypothesis: since objectively, bars seem to be full of men and women who are finding sexual partners there, perhaps many of the women who do this are not even consciously aware that their habitus is guiding their actions to produce this effect.
Jenn — July 4, 2010
I personally hate the stereotypes myself, and would really like them to go away. The expectation that men are supposed to buy drinks for women to get them wasted and that they're drawn to the bar by the temptation of "prey" is icky. I really don't like the whole "hunter/prey" metaphor the double-standard projects, as it invokes all sorts of nasty implications about hetero sex.
What is kind of neat about not having to pay cover at bars if you're a lady is that you can totally go to bars with a reputation for cheap drinks and a good DJ for free, even if you're not interested in dudes. My gay ass gets to take up space on a dance floor and at a table because marketers assume that everyone in the club is hetero.
Of course, this only works if you're suitably fuckable. I've seen plenty of bouncers insist the Ladies Night no-cover was the night before when older, fatter, or less conventionally pretty (such as non-white women or women who dress more modestly) try to get in.
In short, it's a lose-lose situation all around. I'm down with the gendered advertising of bars. They're basically cess-pools (at least the popular, newer, hetero ones in my city) of gender roles, inflated expectations, and misogyny.
Toast — July 5, 2010
Our one local nightclub always has an entry fee for men, who have to be 21; but girls get in from 18 for free. A lot of friends have said this is because men "are more likely to start fights than women". While that's a stereotypical black hole in its own right, could this also be a factor? It might certainly explain why groups of guys are rejected unless they have women with them.
Tyler — July 7, 2010
To all of the indignant women reading this...
"Hello, I'm Tyler. Can I buy you a drink?"
What should you respond to this? If you answer, "Yes" or "Sure" -- do you not see a certain "social exchange" going on here? I'm not suggesting a cosmo means the woman "owes" the man sex... but men are being painted in a very poor light here. I'm personally shy in the bar situation... so I'm far from a "player," but it's like the women in the bars are innocent.
If you're not interested at all... the correct answer is, "No." However, the answer to the free drink question is seldom a negative!
Put your indignation back in your purse.
(p.s. Yes, there are lots of creeps. And, yes, some men do horrible things to women. BUT, and this doesn't reduce either of the preceding, women are part of the game too! And many times far more conniving than the men in the room being motivated by their dicks...)
Blix — July 17, 2011
I still don't get why adult men think getting with college girls is alright, especially underclassmen. They're so young!
Grig — February 12, 2021
cool article
James Franko — February 12, 2021
What do you think a person needs to be completely happy? I think a survey site with the top 10 dating sites for geeks is enough for some. They would have read enough there, seen enough and compared some sites with others, chose the best one and registered to find a companion or life partner.