Flashback Friday.
Yesterday I went to Marshall’s and overheard a conversation between a teenager and her mother that perfectly illustrated what I was planning on posting about. The teen pulled her mom over to look at a purse she wanted for Christmas. It was $148, but she was making a case to her mom that it was actually a great buy compared to how much it would have been at the original price, which, as she pointed out to her mom, was listed as $368.
Ellen Ruppel Shell discusses this topic at length in Cheap: The High Cost of Discount Culture.
It indicates that you are getting a great deal by shopping at Marshall’s compared to the original price of the item.
Except that is not, in fact, what they are saying. The wording is “compare at…” The tags do not say “marked down from” or “original price” or “was.” There is a crucial difference: when you are told to “compare at,” the implication is that the shoes were originally $175, making them a super steal at $49. The “manufacturer’s suggested retail price” (MSRP) gives you the same info.
But as Shell points out, these numbers are largely fictional. Marshall’s is not actually telling you that those shoes were ever sold for $175. You’re just supposed to “compare” $49 to $175. But $175 may be an entirely meaningless number. The shoes may never have been sold for $175 at any store; certainly no specifics are given. Even if they were, the fact that a large number of them ended up at Marshall’s would indicate that many customers didn’t consider $175 an acceptable price.
The same goes for the MSRP: it’s meaningless. Among other things, that’s not how pricing works these days for big retail outlets. The manufacturer doesn’t make a product and then tell the retailer how much they ought to charge for it. Retailers hold much more power than manufacturers; generally, they pressure suppliers to meet their price and to constantly lower costs, putting the burden on the suppliers to figure out how to do so (often by reducing wages). The idea that manufacturers are able to tell Macy’s or Target or other big retailers how much to charge for their items is ridiculous. Rather, the retailer usually tells the manufacturer what MSRP to print on the tag of items they’ll be purchasing (I saw some tags at Marshall’s where it said MSRP but no price had been printed on it).
So what’s the point of a MSRP on a price tag, or a “compare at” number? These numbers serve as “anchor” prices — that is, they set a high “starting” point for the product, so the “sale” price seems like a great deal in comparison. Except the “sale” price isn’t actually a discount at all — it’s only a sale price in comparison to this fictional original price that was developed for the sole purpose of making you think “Holy crap! I can get $175 shoes for just $49!”
The point is to redirect your thinking from “Do I think these shoes are worth $49?” to “I can save $126!” This is a powerful psychological motivator; marketing research shows that people are fairly easily swayed by perceived savings. A sweater we might not think is worth $40 if we saw it at Banana Republic suddenly becomes worth $50 if we see it at Marshall’s (or T.J. Maxx, an outlet mall, Ross, etc.) and are told it used to sell for $80. We focus not on the fact that we’re spending $50, but on the fact that we’re saving $30.
And that makes us feel smart: we’ve beat the system! Instead of going to the mall and paying $368 for that purse, we hunted through the discount retailer and found it for $148! We worked for it, and we were smart enough to not get conned into buying it at the inflated price. Shell describes research that shows that, in these situations, we feel like we didn’t just save that money, we actually earned it by going to the effort to search out deals. When we buy that $148 purse, we’re likely to leave feeling like we’re somehow $220 richer (since we didn’t pay $368) rather than $148 poorer. And we’ll value it more highly because we feel like we were smart to find it; that is, we’re likely to think a $148 purse bought on “sale” is cooler and better quality than we would the identical purse if we bought it at full price for $120.
And stores capitalize on these psychological tendencies by giving us cues that seem to indicate we’re getting an amazing deal. Sometimes we are. But often we’re being distracted with numbers that seem to give us meaningful information but are largely irrelevant, if not entirely fictional.
Originally posted in 2009.
Gwen Sharp is an associate professor of sociology at Nevada State College. You can follow her on Twitter at @gwensharpnv.
Comments 73
Victoria — December 18, 2009
For many people, their first mistake is placing a subjective value on a brand name. That's what makes fictional prices come to life. I don't know that this sort of "discounting" would work in the same way if they were selling just standard no-name balck wallets for $20 and said that they were "valued at $60". No one would believe it without a name brand to back it up. I can't even believe people do their shopping in this way to begin with, but clearly it works for the manufacturers and stores.
Kevin — December 18, 2009
Great post, pretty much every time I shop I'm reminded of this. It seems to be biggest in clothing (and maybe furniture...), I don't know why exactly (high markup anyway?). In clothing stores (like Kohl's) it seems everything is always on sale. "Sale" is supposed to mean "We usually sell it for X, now it's temporarily Y" but not so in these stores. And of course those sale prices are always from meaningless MSRPs, so even if they used to sell it for a different price, when it's "30% off" it's 30% from the MSRP, not 30% from their old price.
Brandon — December 18, 2009
Good stuff. There is one reliable price you can check on some clothes, though. It's certainly not the tag hanging off the item.
But some clothing companies have a set price for their items that is part of THEIR labeling. Ralph Lauren, Kenneth Cole, and Calvin Klein come to mind. And if you go into their stores, you will discover that unfortunately, those outrageous prices actually hold true.
So when I get them off the clearance rack at TJ Maxx for ten bucks, I feel like I'm getting a deal.
Of course this price does nothing to reflect other costs...
Captain Crab — December 18, 2009
A fairly familiar phrase used by auto dealers is: $100 over invoice. Sounds great doesn't it? The invoice price doesn't tell you anything really because dealers also get quantity discounts, cash discounts, volume sales discounts, etc.
Jeff — December 18, 2009
You know, this makes me think of an experience I had at the County Fair this last summer. I have a 1-year-old who'd never been to the fair, so I thought it would be fun to try to "win" her a stuffed animal on a midway game. Of course, I know that I would basically be buying a toy, but that's part of the experience right?
Well, due to the very convoluted math practiced by the midway barkers, I got a very nice Curious George knock off for the low low price of $25.00. But hey, I saved over $40.00! If I hadn't taken advantage of his side-deal I would have paid about $70.00 for that fifty-cent piece of trash!
It's pretty bad when national retail chains are resorting to the same kind of tactics as the crooked carnival barker.
Captain Crab — December 18, 2009
Jeff: The carnival barker learned it in Marketing 101 just like the retail chains.
larry c wilson — December 18, 2009
Is it necessary to use the descriptor "crooked" when refering to a carnival barker?
Emma — December 18, 2009
When the Virgin Megastore in Union Square closed they had "massive going out of business sales!" But things that were "marked down 20%" had actually just been made more expensive and then marked down to their original price. And they didn't even do it that cleverly. For example, they always had a $10 movie section and anyone who has shopped there before would know that, but suddenly there $10 movies were all $12.50. It was ridiculous.
Ranah — December 18, 2009
If the manufacturers aren't forced to sell at low prices, they won't be effective / efficient at what they do - they'll waste resources, work, technology. So the one who can afford to sell at lowest prices is more efficient in general and thus their price decision is favoured. The ones who are not efficient have to die so that those who do the job well can live. Thanks to that you can have so much for so little (and thanks to that you have a rise in quality as well).
As for merchants - they're not blood-sucking parasites as you seem to describe them - without them you'd hardly have anything to buy around you - all of these numerous and various goods delivered around you will be gone. Then you'd really have to search around the whole city (and even surrounding cities) and be happy that you found anything at all.
LeAnna — December 18, 2009
Thanks for posting this. I always knew that those deals were scams!
Sabriel — December 18, 2009
haha! This reminds me of a common theme on the consumerist blog, where people post pictures of items for sale where the price on the "sale" tag is actually HIGHER than the original price. The joke is that Target does this a lot, but I think a lot of places do it.
I wonder if this is also playing a bit on the trick of the Door-in-the-Face technique. There are a variety of sneaky sales tactics studied in social psych classes, and one of them is the practice of making an unreasonably large demand at first so that the target will turn you down. Then you lower your price, appearing to make a concession, and then the target will feel socially indebted to you and reciprocate by being more willing to buy you're product. They'll meet you half-way, except that you determined "half way" from the outset with your unreasonably high starting price.
When I was working as a telemarketer for an environmentalist organization, we were instructed to use this technique. You start out asking for donations that are way too high for most people to afford, with the understanding that most people will say "no." You then back it down to something else far too high, and do that dance until you get down to the usual donation amount, where people finally cave in. My boss said that we were to do this to situate the organization as important in people's minds, and also because it gets people to donate more in the long run.
Sue — December 18, 2009
Very interesting.
Captain Crab — December 18, 2009
Ranah:
forcing manufacturers to sell at low prices does nothing but force the manufacturerers to produce lower quality products. I work for a company that makes farm equipment.
To lower are prices we would have to make the following changes:
Lower our input costs (ie, steel, purchased components, etc), resulting in lower quality finished goods.
Lower our labor costs, resulting in lower quality goods, and probably moving production out of the United States.
I could go on and on, but you, the consumer, demands, or should demand a quality good for a reasonable, not cheap, price.
Jamie — December 18, 2009
HAHA!! Just in time for the shopping season. I love the title of this, because I've called it a meaningless discount too. The desire for brands really drives this crazy stuff though.
Sometimes you can get a pretty damn good deal at those stores (a shirt for 3 bucks, or jeans for 5, which I've done often). It's not brand name, but it's good. Compared even to a place like Target, or the good will in my town, three dollars is a steal.
But as far as this weird comparison to typical brand pricing is concerned, it's a complete joke.
John Yum — December 18, 2009
This is another example of the "Golden Mean fallacy". When it's applied to "sale" items, this looks like a deal, but when it's applied to other things, then it's kinda stupid:
Dave is mugged, and the mugger demands the $400 in his wallet. Dave says that he doesn't want to give him any. The mugger then says that Dave should give him $200, since that is a better deal."
I could never understand why people thought it was such a "good deal" to shop at Marshalls and TJ Maxx. Who cares what the original price actually is? You are still shelling out a certain amount of money. $200 is still $200; it doesn't matter that it used to be $400! (If you can't afford $200, then don't pay for it, even if you think you are saving $200!)
Captain Crab — December 18, 2009
I'm just an old hippie and haven't been "SHOPPING" in years.
Merry Christmas, Happy Holiday's, etc!
Beelzebub — December 19, 2009
I think it should be pointed out that in the book industry, the MSRP is actually a real price suggested by the manufacturer. However, in recent times there has been a price war going on between Amazon.com, Wal-Mart, and Target (Sears joined belatedly) around books, where they radically cut prices on books to sell them at a loss, since they can pick up that loss elsewhere. This has the side-effect of making it more difficult for independent bookstores to sell books and it devalues the book itself. Here's a Time article on the this: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1932426,00.html
Noelley B — December 19, 2009
How does shopping second hand effect this market? With the exception of socks and undies, I haven't purchased new clothes in years, and yet I dress in name brands, silk and cashmere. These products really are high quality, and yet I really am getting them for a few dollars a piece.
Sarah — December 19, 2009
This is one of my favorite phenomena - "Spaving".
Here's the thought process: "Normally, this purse costs $500.00 - but it's on sale for just $200.00! If I buy this purse, I am saving $300.00!" But no - if you buy that purse, you're spending $200.00. My mom used to do this all the time - she would come home from the store, and Dad would say "how much did you spend?" and she would respond with "well, but I *saved...*"
The way that we are persuaded to buy crap that we don't need because we think that we're saving money will never cease to amaze me.
Vettekaas — December 19, 2009
I have a useless or useful bit of insight from my time working in retail. In order to make room for sort-of nice new merchandise, we were desperately trying to get rid of crappy merchandise that nobody wanted and that had been sitting on the shelf, literally, for years. As a last resort, the regional manager allowed us to make a special 'in-store' sale. They told us to lower the prices until people actually started to buy the stuff, even if that meant going below the COST of the product.
So, while normally regular 'sales' are still well above the cost of a product, desperate clearance items are likely being sold below cost because keeping the crappy items is costing the company more money than just selling them at a loss.
The Geography of a Restaurant Menu » Sociological Images — December 20, 2009
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gkoenig — December 20, 2009
I think some of this is illegal in the UK, you can't call it a sale/reduced unless it's been on sale somewhere in the UK at that price for a certain period of time. Doesn't have to be a lot of shops tho...
Scapino — December 21, 2009
MSRP isn't always meaningless; a number of larger manufacturers, especially Apple and Microsoft (although I'm sure there's some clothes manufacturers that do it as well) set a minimum advertised price. This allows them to create a "boutique" brand image, instead of having retailers find a (probably lower) price floor for themselves. Obviously, you won't see iPods on sale for significant discounts at TJ Maxx, but MSRP does occasionally actually have a meaning.
More info-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggested_retail_price#Minimum_advertised_price
hoshi — December 22, 2009
i just discussed this with my 14 year old nephew last week. he was making a wishlist online and got REALLY excited when he saw that something he liked was "only" $67. it was originally $147!! what a deal!
i explained to him that stores set both prices. i told him to imagine that i offered to sell him a candy bar for $5. sounds like a lot, right? but the original price on this candy bar was $25!!! what a deal!!
he thought about that for a moment. then he said, "That's really sneaky." ^_^
Laura — December 30, 2009
Consumerist linked to a great discussion of this same phenomenon at outlet malls by Ellen Rupel Shell a while back:
http://consumerist.com/2009/08/how-outlet-malls-fool-shoppers.html
jason — January 3, 2010
People have been doing this since the dawn of commerce... It's just another form of bargaining, albiet in an industrialized, big-box form.
Ranjit — March 19, 2010
Isn't that illegal in the USA? It certainly is in Germany.
But as we say: "Wo kein Kläger, da kein Richter" (If no one sues, there won't be a judge)
Scams using percentages are even more subtle.
There was the case of a department store advertising a discount of a certain percentage, let's say 20%.
One would assume, that this means that the product is 20% cheaper than it was before. In reality, the new price was 20% of the new price below the old one, which isn't nearly as cheap.
Luckely someone did recalculate and complained. The department store got fined.
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blickblocks — October 6, 2010
I always thought Marshalls and the like purchased products that were overstocked or something.
apocalyptopia — October 6, 2010
For the record, Pizza Hut regularly puts out coupons for things that aren't actually discounts and are just the regular price you would pay without a coupon.
Example: Pizza + Wings for $16. The pizza is $10 reg. price and the wings are $6 reg. price.
I first noticed this kind of deceptive "discounting" while working at my first job, McDonalds. They had an advertisement for 5 cheeseburgers for $4.95. The cheeseburgers were 99 cents each at regular price, so anyone that took the time to do a little math would realized that 5 of them would, of course, be $4.95. It amazed me how many people fell for it, though.
Kelli Maier — December 4, 2013
I was the teenage girl at Marshall's, trying to explain to my Mother what they were doing. She always believed with all of her heart that the "compare at" or "MSRP" was what the item was marked down from. She still thinks I am jaded, and kind of mean, for not being thrilled about the deal she found.
Umlud — April 17, 2015
A relevant video from Dan Gilbert as to why we make the wrong argument about purchases like the one described above. The relevant bit starts at 8:21 (where he shifts from our poor ability at estimating odds to our poor ability in estimating value).
https://youtu.be/c-4flnuxNV4?t=8m21s
Not that you needed anymore proof that "The war against high price fashions" was… — April 20, 2015
[…] The Meaningless Discount » Sociological Imagesthesocietypages.orgYesterday I went to Marshall’s to take some photos for this post and overheard a conversation between a teenager and her mother that perfectly illustrated what I was planning on posting about. The teen pulled her mom over to look at a purse she wanted for Christmas. It was $148, but she was making a… […]
SuperShrug — April 20, 2015
Overstock does this on practically every item. It's always the highest price it had ever sold or been suggested at.
Ray Huey — April 27, 2015
If I were to write a paper on this article, what would be a good thesis statement?
Andy — April 4, 2022
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Similar to electronics retailers, grocery stores & Food restaurant to comparative pricing to make consumers think they're getting a better deal than they actually are.
By putting the average-priced item next to a more expensive organic item, shoppers will think they'll save money by choosing the cheaper.so retailer make such strategy to attract the customer and also they are doing customer survey like wingstop survey code is doing so that they can improve their products and services.
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