Leontine G. sent in a troubling example of the framing of children’s deviance, and their own complicity in this framing. She included two links: one to a Today show story about a 7-year-old boy who took his family’s car on a joyride and got caught by police, and one to a CNN story about a 7-year-old boy who took his family’s car on a joyride and got caught by police. Different 7-year-olds. One white, one black.
The white boy, Preston, is interviewed with his family on the set of the Today show. Knowing his kid is safe, his Dad describes the event as “funny” and tells the audience that if this could happen to a “cotton candy all-American kid like Preston,” then “it could happen to anybody.”
When the host, Meredith Vieira, asks Preston why hid from the police, he says, “cause I wanted to,” and she says, “I don’t blame you actually.” With Preston not too forthcoming, his Mom steps in to say that he told her that “he just wanted to know what it felt like to drive a car.” When Vieira asks him why he fled from the police, he replies with a shrug. Vieira fills in the answer, “You wanted to get home?”
Vieira then comments on how they all then went to church. The punishment? Grounded for four days without TV or video games. Vieira asks the child, “Do you think that’s fair?” He says yes. And she continues, “Do you now understand what you did?” He nods and agrees. “And that maybe it wasn’t the smartest thing?” He nods and agrees. “You gonna get behind the wheel of a car again?” He says no. Then she teases him about trying out model toy cars.
They conclude that this incident just goes to show that “Any little kid, you never know what can happen…” and closes “I’ll be seeing you at church buddy boy!”
The video:
All in all, exactly what you’d expect from the Today show: a heartwarming, human interest story with a happy ending. The child is framed as a fundamentally good kid who was curious and perhaps a bit impetuous. When he has no answers for Vieira’s questions, she slots in innocent ones. And the mild punishment is seen as incidental to the more important idea that he learned something.
This story contrasts dramatically to the CNN story about Latarian Milton, a black 7-year-old who took his family’s car on a joy ride. I’ll put the video first, but be forewarned, it’s disturbing not only because of the different frame placed on the boys actions, but because of the boy’s embracing of the spoiled identity (apology for the commercial):
With an absolutely polar introduction of “Not your typical 7-year-old,” this story is filmed on the street. Whereas the Today show screened the chase footage in real time, this one is sped up, making it seem even more extreme.
The interviewer, off-camera, asks Latarian why he took the car. He replied: “I wanted to do it ’cause it’s fun, it’s fun to do bad things.” The interviewer asks further, “Did you know that you could perhaps kill somebody?” And he replies: “Yes, but I wanted to do hoodrat stuff with my friends.”
The interviewer asks him what punishment he should receive and Latarian offers a punishment very similar to Preston’s: “Just a little bit… no video games for a whole weekend.” In a longer version of this news story, now taken down, the camera focuses on a reporter who explains that the police plan to go forward with charges of grand theft against him. While he’s “too young to go into any type of juvenile facility,” he says, “police say they do want to get him into the system, so that they can get him some type of help.”
The implication here, of course, is that this child is not innocent or impetuous like Preston, he’s a pre-criminal who needs “some type of help.” The sooner they get Latarian into “the (prison?) system,” the better. No cotton candy kid this one.
Unfortunately, Latarian says all the right things to make the narrative fit. He says he likes to do “bad” things, calls himself a “hoodrat,” and seems unremorseful, even defiant, for at least part of the interview (he looks a bit sheepish in the end when he finds out his grandmother is going to have to pay for the damage he did to other cars).
One way to interpret this is to say that Latarian IS a pre-criminal. That he DOES need to get into the system because he’s clearly a bad kid. Someone inclined to believe that black people were, in fact, more prone to criminal behavior could watch these two videos and feel confirmed in their view.
But there is good evidence that people, beginning as children, internalize the stereotypes that others have of them. As Ann Ferguson shows in her book, Bad Boys: Public Schools in the Making of Black Masculinity, black children, especially boys, are stereotyped as pre-criminals; not adorably naughty, like white boys, but dangerously bad from the beginning. And studies with children have shown that they often internalize this idea, as in the famous doll experiment in which both black and white children were more likely than not to identify the black doll as bad (see this similar demonstration of white preference on CNN and a discussion of the original doll experiment at ABC). So I think this terribly sad story of Latarian is showing us how children learn to think of themselves as deviant and bad from the society around them. Latarian, remember, is seven, just like Preston. They’re both children, but they are being treated very differently, as these programs illustrate, and it is already starting to sink in.
Originally posted in 2010. Re-posted in solidarity with the African American community; regardless of the truth of the Martin/Zimmerman confrontation, it’s hard not to interpret the finding of not-guilty as anything but a continuance of the criminal justice system’s failure to ensure justice for young Black men. Crossposted at Racialicious, the Huffington Post, and Love Isn’t Enough.
Lisa Wade, PhD is an Associate Professor at Tulane University. She is the author of American Hookup, a book about college sexual culture; a textbook about gender; and a forthcoming introductory text: Terrible Magnificent Sociology. You can follow her on Twitter and Instagram.
Comments 100
K — July 26, 2010
This was a really interesting post. I'd heard of Latarian Milton before, but I didn't know that a White kid had been publicly coddled for doing the exact same thing.
DoctorJay — July 26, 2010
Great post. Not sure what "cotton-candy, all-American kid" is. His dad calls him that, so I assume this means his kid isn't a trouble maker, and this incident was an aberration. The other boy is not "all-American"? And his incident is assumed to be the norm, rather than a one-off?
Kelly — July 26, 2010
Oh man. How sad. :(
Sigbjorn — July 26, 2010
Something you didn't point out: the Today Show probably paid the family for the interview. The Milton boy and his grandmother most likely got nothing. Also, tThe white boy didn't seem particularly remorseful either. He's okay with a four day punishment? Of course he is. He realizes he got off easy.
sev — July 26, 2010
The clip of Latarian became a minor internet meme, particularly the line "Doing hoodrat stuff with my friends." This clip is an almost caricaturish treatment of the boy before he becomes the black man mainstream white society so often treats with fear. The clip opening with Latarian's self-important seeming gait, the jerky sped-up footage, the choice of including clips that seem to embarrass him and his grandmother... I'd say this is more about mockery than it is about treating him as a danger (not that they aren't two sides of the same coin).
Kelly — July 26, 2010
This is a great example of how race and class issues play into similar incidents - both the MSM perception and cultural perception. I think you handled the posting well.
FilthyGrandeur — July 26, 2010
very interesting post. i'm glad you've pointed out these disparities. it's very telling that the white boy gets a slap on the wrist and a "haha he's just being a boy" and the black boy is already marked for a criminal life. i think this is very much internalization of stereotypes.
Shaunna — July 26, 2010
This is truly shocking. The contrast is just so apparent when they're right next to each other.
And I don't think there was too much text at all!
sooopc — July 26, 2010
Furthermore, I'd like to applaud cnn/abc for having the black anchorman "report". Race weighs in heavy on the mercurial quality that both boys share. Each in his own right the flip side to the other's coin. Injustice pitches a good fight against civil rights, day in and day out.
Joe — July 26, 2010
You do seem to be glossing over the fact that, in the case of the first boy there is no mention of any damage being done to other people or cars, while the second boy's grandmother is going to have to pay for damages he caused.
Thus, while both are wildly irresponsible and dangerous they ae not in fact the same thing. Of course if the first boy did cause damage then thats another story entirely.
T — July 26, 2010
I'm confused by this paragraph:
One way to interpret this is to say that Latarian IS a pre-criminal. That he DOES need to get into the system because he’s clearly a bad kid. Someone inclined to believe that black people were, in fact, more prone to criminal behavior could watch these two videos and feel confirmed in their view.
Should the first two sentences be read as following from the third? That is to say, Latarian can only be seen as "pre-criminal" if you think black people have a criminal gene? You can't think he's pre-criminal because of his approach to life... and only a slight twinge of respect for his grandmother?
ellen — July 26, 2010
Each of these stories is a serious misuse of media power--they are How-To videos teaching the performance and expectation of white male privilege and black male criminality. I'm disgusted (by CNN and NBC, not by the boys or their families). Although I'm a "news junkie," I don't watch what passes for news on television anymore. It's worse than useless; it pollutes the mind.
joanna — July 26, 2010
I'm kind of confused. Please, no one freak out at me for saying this and feel free to help clarify in a kind, respectful manner. Here goes:
I don't think that the situations are as similar as this post makes them out to me. When I watched the first video I did think 'wow, I bet they wouldn't act this way if he was black.' I did. BUT when I saw the second video I was deeply disturbed by how the child seemed completely remorseless and proud of what he had done. Yes, the first child didn't say much but he wasn't bragging about what he did. He indicated some remorse even if he was pushed that way by the interviewer. Also, the second child caused some serious damage! I know it was a stroke of luck on the first child's part that he didn't, but there is still a huge difference! White or black, there is a very big difference between a child doing something bad but not actually harming anyone and then seeming slightly remorseful and a child doing something bad, causing a lot of damage and then seeming proud. The motivations were entirely different as well. The first child said he wanted to drive a car, the second child said he wanted to do bad things. At first I thought the whole thing about putting the black child into the system at Juvie was due to his race but then I thought a little harder. I would want that kid to be kept under tabs as well! Not because he is black, but because he is exhibiting behavior that is a warning sign of potential future psychological disorders! He is deliberately causing harm and showing no sign of remorse whatsoever. If my child were to do that I'd want myself and the law to keep an eye on him as well. Plus, who's to say the first kid isn't just camera shy. Maybe he felt bad but was too shy to say so on tv. Regardless, he wasn't BRAGGING about it. But yeah, 4 days without videogames is such a bullshit punishment for driving a car at 7. I definitely agree on that point.
byron — July 26, 2010
I have to agree with joanna.
Hypothetical: If an adult (any race, class, sex, or age) fails a breathalyzer and gets a DUI*, they'll receive a drastically lessor sentence then if the same person fails a DUI after hitting two parked cars, two moving cars, before finally crashing and totaling their own car. Displaying pride at the trail of destruction and chaos of the second example wouldn't help either.
Race may have played some small role in the characterizations, but it's simply impossible to know given how sharply distinct the two anecdotes are. The differences in the crimes, the number of and damage to victims, and clear lack of remorse displayed by the second child, are a much simpler explanation for the reactions and punishments. Occam's razor wins this round.
[*] The reason for using a DUI as a hypothetical is because, similar to the joyriding kids, it's a crime simply because the strong potential to cause harm is there...no actual harm need occur (DUI or underage joyride)...but punishment is far worse if harm is actually caused.
xillusion — July 26, 2010
I'll add that the second little boy, Latarian Milton was on the news some time later again for beating his grandmother. This prompted the authorities to give him a mental evaluation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mJpI8b23nI&feature=related
ow — July 26, 2010
It's also interesting to wonder why either of these stories made the news. In the first, you have an odd incident--a little kid taking a car, but with no damage and nothing overly remarkable about the story.
The other is yet another story of a kid of color doing something bad. That is equally as uninteresting as the first story.
What would be more interesting is what is discussed in this last comment. If that kid really does have mental health issues, and there is such a lack of funding for treatment of such issues, what does that say about us, our society and our priorities.
justcallmejo — July 26, 2010
Echoing some of the other comments - very disturbing videos. I was disgusted by the Today show - it appeared like the interview and the family were treating the whole thing as a joke. I thought Vieria would know that a good interviewer doesn't answer her own questions. I wonder if the parents showed more concern and were more upset about the situation if Vieria would have positioned her questions (and unnecessary answers) differently. All in all it was upsetting to watch the family treat this as a "boys will be boys" incident and "it could happen to anyone". Not anyone. Most families would be smart enough to discuss the fact that children do not sit in the driver's seat of a car until they are old enough to drive.
In regards to the second video, it seems clear to me that the interview with the boy was edited to show exactly what they wanted to show - a pre-criminal. The fact that there are other videos that note that he apologizes (linked to in other posts) questions whether the entire story is being told by CNN. How the parent/caregiver reacts also affects how the child will react to questioning. The white boy is not going to admit he wanted to do something bad because he knows he will actually get into trouble. From the videos it was clear that the white boy was not in trouble and the black boy was. I'm sure talking back to CNN was not going to get the black boy into any more trouble.
After watching the other videos on the second boy I noticed all of the reporters were also black. I haven't paid attention to this before - is this a common practice to have a black man report on incidents involving a black person and a white reporter for incidents involving a white person?
Kathy — July 26, 2010
It's pretty clear the majority of posters are obsessed with race. The only sound opinion here is how both of these stories should have never made the news. These stories have nothing to do with racism. The first story clearly is just sharing a time where a kid did something stupid and got lucky, and their family was extremely grateful. The second was clearly a time where a kid did something stupid and didn't get lucky- wrecking the vehicle, inviting a friend to come a long, injuring some people etc-and their family was upset (I mean who wouldn't be upset that their ticked of child drove off and wrecked the car and you were stuck w/ the clean up.
Who cares if the reporters were white or black. you have a semi remorseful kid, and a non-remorseful kid. You tell me who you are going to go easy on?
Matt Cornell — July 27, 2010
Interesting find. Looks like Latharian's viral video fame landed him a spot on Comedy Central's Tosh.0.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bc9nn87OUM
Lisa's analysis about Latharian reflecting society's expectations of him, seems particularly apt when viewing this clip, especially the latter half, which self-consciously traffics in tired ghetto stereotypes.
The only good thing here is Latharian's hope of becoming a firefighter, a fact which suggests he's canny enough to know what's expected of him (playing out an ironized racial shtick), while imagining a better future for himself.
Matt Cornell — July 27, 2010
Judge Judy got in on the action too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaOtGR04918
Seems like there's enough here to warrant a deeper analysis of the media's perpetuation of/dependence on this kind of portrayal.
Latarian may not be a precriminal, but he's a pre-star of reality TV, that particular type of entertainment that encourages its subjects to confuse their own identities with fictional projections created for mass consumption.
Mae — July 27, 2010
By the "system" they mean Department of Children and Families - or whatever it is called in that state. Interesting that that wasn't talked about with the first family. Shows some of the reasons why kids of color are disproportionately enrolled with DCF for some kind of care. Why was there no question about neglect in the first interview??
el.j — July 27, 2010
I wonder how many of the commentators here actually know or work with or have in their families any "at risk" black children? I ask this seriously, because I think people are very willing to draw conclusions about how black people feel without actually ever having had a conversation with black kids about how they are affected by stereotypes, how they process media, how they develop self-image, how they respond to outsiders, how they defend themselves, what masks they wear for the world, etc. Without any knowledge of these things, it is difficult for people to accurately judge how race is affecting these kids, and easy to dismiss race as a factor in how they present themselves and how they internalize expectations.
Rose — July 27, 2010
The Youtube video about Latarian beating his grandmother mentions that he had grown up witnessing domestic violence between his parents (which presumably is at least part of the reason his grandmother has custody of him), and the grandmother feels that his "problems" may stem from this.
James — July 27, 2010
Gotta call bullcrap on the play. Black folks, this is NOT a race card worthy incident. Let's not waste a racism call on that bad ass, chunky little thuglet. The White kid took his parents' car out of natural curiosity. If one of my Black sons did that at the age of seven, the most I would have done was grounded them for 2 weeks. No outside play. No video games. No friends allowed to visit. The Black boy? Let's examine the facts. First, he took his grandmother's car out of defiance and pure spite. Second, he's being raised by his grandmother. Where are his parents? That tells me he's damaged. Third, There was willful and deliberate property damage done by lil' Latarian. If that was my son/grandson, I would have beaten him until he was Drake's complexion. Fourth, didn't they spoof this kid on "The Boondocks"?
A — July 27, 2010
This is a good example of why white boys grow up to be so entitled, vain, and irresponsible.
A lot of focus seems to be on what the black boy will grow up to be. A criminal? A psycho?
Let's not forget that white boys and white men aren't exactly pleasant citizens.
All the negative stereotypes that whites, especially men, project on oppressed groups are true of themselves. Rich white dudes are the thieves, the junkies, the lazy, the hustlers, the sociopaths.
Framing Children’s Deviance | Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture — July 28, 2010
[...] By Guest Contributor Lisa Wade, Ph.D, originally posted at Sociological Images [...]
Bosola — July 28, 2010
I kind of wish I didn't like this Latarian kid as much as I do. I mean, what he did was wrong and dangerous, but I like his gumption. Any kid in that position can hang his head and make an insincere apology...I think it's kind of awesome that he chose to level with the reporters instead. Michael Kinsley famously observed that a gaffe doesn't involve telling a lie; a gaffe involves telling a truth that ought not be publicly admitted. "It's fun to do bad things" is a classic Kinsely Gaffe. Throw in that puckish grin in the Comedy Central interview...
This is obviously a troubled kid. I've never really known troubles to diminish under the tender mercies of the juvenile criminal justice system. I hope he turns out. He's certainly got a kind of integrity that the white kid does not.
I'm also struck by an definition of privilege I once read: that privilege means getting the benefit of the doubt. Or getting the appropriately contrite answers spoon-fed to you by your interviewer.
Tab dump « of Heart and Mind — July 28, 2010
[...] Framing children’s deviance, in which the coverage of Latarian Milton (the seven year old of “hoodrat stuff with my friends” fame) is contrasted with that of a white child’s similar car-driving spree. [...]
Amy — July 29, 2010
Really interesting post. I just wanted to point out that the Ann Ferguson linked to near the end is not the same one who wrote the book _Bad Boys_. The link is to Ferguson, the philosopher at UMass. The book was written by Ferguson, the Afro-American Studies professor at Smith.
Race And Joy Riding 7yr olds « QueerKitten — August 2, 2010
[...] The commentary on the blog is great so definately have a read and watch the videos. [...]
anonymous — August 2, 2010
I saw these two videos, and I felt that the difference in venues had something to do with the demeanor of the kids. Both kids are too young to really understand the consequences, but Preston was put in a room after preparation by and strict supervision from his parents.
In the other video - Latarian is interviewed seemingly away from them. Were they edited out? They seem to be in a shot as the police were coming to visit, though they speak directly with him and don't really acknowledge his family (mother out of frame, not acknowledged, grandmother in another shot altogether). Of course it's going to seem like the state needs to put him in the system when there's not a single shot of him interacting with his family!
I knew kids like this - look at the way the boy talks about his friend (" - and then I suddenly had my friend come in, and he smokes real cigarettes") - in my opinion, he's playing up his toughness for the camera because he doesn't understand the situation. What do you think the other boy would say if he were just on the street with a camera? How much would he have said if nobody answered for him?
links for 2010-08-04 « Embololalia — August 4, 2010
[...] Framing Children’s Deviance » Sociological Images But there is good evidence that people, beginning as children, internalize the stereotypes that others have of them. As Ann Ferguson shows in her book, Bad Boys: Public Schools in the Making of Black Masculinity, black children, especially boys, are stereotyped as pre-criminals; not adorably naughty, like white boys, but dangerously bad from the beginning. (tags: children men race african-americans stereotypes) [...]
Framing Children’s Deviance | Love Isn't Enough - on raising a family in a colorstruck world — August 30, 2010
[...] Written by Love Isn’t Enough guest contributor Lisa; originally published at Sociological Images [...]
betsy santos — July 21, 2011
Super late comment, but notice how this framing carries into the titles of the videos themselves?
The white boy is a "driver".
The black boy "took the car on a joyride".
Jennifer Hary — June 21, 2012
It's so weird how black kids are considered to be "pre-criminal" when most serial killers are young white guys who started off killing and torturing animals at a younger age....
vegetarianme — July 17, 2013
"more longer"
Pino — July 18, 2013
Latarian's rampage was parodied on Boondocks, the episode "Smokin With Cigawettes." That episode was funny as hell and I encourage y'all to watch that! But yeah, I know if I was to pull of some Latarian type ish, my mom would definitely whoop me, and most Black families would do that. We're taught that if we mess up in reallife, where law enforcement is concerned, we're not getting any second chances or sympathy from the White Man's World. So, consequently, we are disciplined more harshly than the average White family.
Ultimately, that's how White Privilege works, if White kids mess up, there is a better possibility that they're given leniency and a chance to rehabilitate. Same is true for public education where Black and Brown kids are more likely to be suspended and/or expelled for bad behavior than White kids. Was true for my experience and a lot of kids of color as well.
Why Won’t You Teach Me? | Processed Life — July 24, 2013
[...] Person™ and that everything is going to be just fine, if only I didn’t assert my difference, if only I were a little bit more just like them, if only I played along nicely. You see, you’re not the first one to say these things. The truth [...]
Johnnyboy1979 — July 24, 2013
Willing to bet both kids own and play Grand Theft Auto and were emulating it.
Flippin’ The Script on Anthony Weiner & Blurred Lines | SociologyFocus — August 4, 2013
[...] Read this article about two 7 year old boys, one black and one white, that both took the family cars joy riding, but received two very different responses. How can we explain these distinctly different responses? [...]
Easy Rider — August 21, 2013
He's not playing into anything. he's just seven. My seven year old white girl would have answered that question with similar defiance. I think "It's fun to do bad things" would be her exact words, but then, if you listened closer to her tone of voice, you'd know she felt bad. He felt bad, I can tell by the way he says, "Can my mom help her?" I feel for him, but I also think Gramma should punish him.
Framing A Childs Innnocence | Social Butterflies — September 24, 2013
[...] Framing Childrens Innocence [...]
White Privilege | danacho — April 25, 2014
[…] its fun to do bad things’ and reflects how our societal ways of seeing cause children to ‘internalize the stereotypes others have of them’. The unquestioned assumptions that Preson is good and can steal his family’s car for fun, while […]
My Friend Sam | University of Minnesota Women's Center Blog — March 9, 2015
[…] Whether they are verbal or nonverbal— social interactions influence the way in which we see one another. When we collectively ostracize a person, we build learned deviance. […]
Wayne Richardson — September 7, 2022
I can truly understand this on so many levels.But from my perspective I believe geographical location is just as important as any other factor.If you were to run the same test and use a white kid that grew up in “THE HOOD”( Which I do know a few) it could of been a different out come. I don’t like yo blame race for everything,but I do admit to knowing at age 8,that I was going to prison.