Oh no! I'm in big trouble! I'm a woman who doesn't shave her underarms OR wear deodorant AND I go out in public in sleeveless tops. I guess I missed compulsory feminism class. (Not watching TV helps! The only time I see commercials is on this blog.)

Speaking of compulsory shaving requirement, has anyone else been disturbed by the media's obsession with Monique's unshaven legs? People have gone so far as to call it un-hygienic. I never shaved arm/leg hair in my life and no ones ever called me dirty, but in the words of the old spice commercial "I'm A MAN!"....

While there's no denying the heavy cultural and social pressures on women to shave all manner of body parts, I think the interpretation of the text in the advert is somewhat misleading. Consider an analogy. I want to send a letter to my grandma. I have to go to the post office, of course! The "have to" here obviously expresses a hypothetical imperative, conditional on my desire to send a letter. It's not as if there's an outward imperative, requiring my presence at the post office whether I like it or not. Similarly in this advert, methinks. It's not as if this woman is setting out to challenge convention and has to be admonished by the advertisers; she wants not to appear with undearm hair. Of course, you might think this desire is an expression of false consciousness or Foucauldian "power" or whatever, which brings us back to the social pressures mentioned above...

Actually, Dove picked a pretty good example: if you're a violinist in a recital, you want people listening to the music, not staring at your armpits. Unfortunate but true. If men are doing a recital, especially if they've gone professional, they have to dress nice, as well.

Sorry, but while Dove's campaign may ultimately be about gender, this isolated example is also about the traditions surrounding Classical music.

Well, in context it is OK. She wants a sleeveless dress. There are social conventions that forces her not to show hair under her arm pits. She is also free to wear sleeves. I do not think that a man showing body hair at such a concert would be accepted either.

Shaving her arm pits is as important as dressing nicely. Within the context, I find it normal to have social requirements dressing style.

I want to note that she would be accepted if she was dressing like a man, much more than a male concertist dressing like a woman. And if there is a social pressure on gender in this context, it would probably be more on the men.

Dove did not mean her that she "has to" shave. It is only in the context of wearing a sleeveless dress that she has.

I just wanted to also say that Muslim men and women are asked to keep certain areas free of hair, which does not include the arms or legs.

"Can I just add that a woman wearing a long-sleeved dress going down to her ankles for a formal event would be seen as, basically, crazy by a lot of people?"

Really? Wow... American society is so focused on appearance. I have worn a long sleeve dressed, down to my ankles, with a scarf and i thought I looked nice. :) oh, and yes, my scarf matched my dress.

What's very upsetting is that many women are now shaving their vulvas (which they mistakenly call their vaginas). Or at least many women in college. Part of the mainstreaming of pornography and infantilizing of women.

The equivalent would be men shaving their testicles.

The idea that women's bodies are only considered accepted when they are "artificial" is ridiculous. Aside from the difficulty in defining exactly the dichotomy between "natural" and "artificial," very little about grooming, clothing, and gender signs are not "artificial," whether for men or women.

I live in a "clean-shaven" society for men and men are socialized to shave every day. They can easily be discriminated against or lose a job if they do not conform to a series of rules about facial or head hair. (Whether it is technically against the law is irrelevant, it's the de facto practice and the cultural norms that matter). There are very few people (men and women) who never do anything artificial to the hair on their heads, and men who never shave or trim their facial hair in a certain artificial way. In our society, a man who wears an enormous "let it all grow out" beard and mustache like they did in the 1800s would be considered odd, to say the least, ridiculous and ugly, much more frequently. Crime and punishment.

How much of this cultural shaving imposition bothers each respective sex (facial shaving for men and body shaving for women)? Apparently, it doesn't bother most people that much. I think most people think of it on the same level as taking a shower or brushing your teeth, as far as daily imposed body maintenance routines. Furthermore, like many socialized behaviors, after the meanings about said behavior are internalized, it's the *not* carrying out of the behavior that bothers a large majority of people.

The main reason why I think this shaving practice became the norm for women is that, after women's clothing started changing in the 1900s and they started uncovering parts of their bodies publicly, if they hadn't been shaving already, underarm and leg hair certainly stood out as it had never before, and it certainly also stood out as a visual symbol for masculinity. And this symbol has been maintained very strongly until today. Furthermore, given all the recent abnormal behavior of visible groups of women with a homosexual mentality to either shave their heads or not shave their legs (that is to copy-cat the gender signs for masculinity from men), there is a more recent meaning of homosexuality that is now often attached to a woman not shaving (but it also depends on the country and area). Then, there is also the sexual attractiveness standard attached to women shaving their underarms and legs, which ties into concepts about femininity.

IMO, it is not the imposition for women of the physical act of shaving legs and underarms itself that is a problem, because you have societies where a substantial number of women don't shave and are treated like crap, but how the meaning of shaving ties into other problematic concepts of femininity, beauty and sexual attractiveness in our culture. Given that it refers to the body, it has its set of complications related to cultural issues about the body, just as rules about head hair and facial hair impact another set of meanings.

I think the imposition of thinness and the excessive sexualization of women's bodies, in dress or body implants, or plastic surgery, causes much more harm to women's psyche's than any little shaving ritual.

I read the way they had the 'of course' pop up a little after the 'she has to shave' as a slightly sarcastic/tongue-in-cheek nod to the fact that it is so often considered a necessity.

As in, I think Dove is actually acknowledging that it is not actually necessary for underarms to be shaved; they have just chosen to focus on this aspect of their deodorant because it is something that so many underarm-shaving women will be looking out for.

This post prompted me to look up the history of shaving. What I found really interesting is how obsessed people have been with shaving bodily hair since antiquity. Also, all the horribly low-tech implements and techniques that were used (ouch!) Then there are the copy-cat fashion fads about shaving, highlighting that this practice has as many class symbols as it does gender ones.

As it was also pointed out somewhere else that if you look at Western paintings of women throughout the ages, you don't see body hair for older paintings.

If the info on this page is correct, there is a lot of interesting cultural developments throughout the ages. Examples:

http://www.quikshave.com/timeline.htm

300 B.C. -

During this same time in ROME, young men about age twenty-one are required to have their first shave. They kick this off by celebrating their official entry into manhood with an elaborate party-like ritual. Other guy friends are invited to watch and give the novice shavee a bunch of nice gifts. Only soldiers and those training to become philosophers are excused from participating in this cultural ordeal.

292 B.C. -

The renowned SCIPIO AFRICANUS MAJOR (236-183 B.C.), conqueror of Hannibal in 202 B.C. also affirms the mode for being clean-shaven. He is admired and copied by men throughout Rome and by neighbors.

50 B.C. -

In ROME, many men are following the grooming example of JULIUS CAESAR (101-44 B.C.), who has his facial hairs individually plucked out with tweezers every day. He also writes this same year that "the Britons shave every part of their body except their head and upper lip."

54 - 68 A.D. -

In early Rome, POPPAEA, wife of the notorious EMPEROR NERO, uses depilatory creams to remove unwanted body hair on a daily basis.

THE MIDDLE AGES: 476 - 1270 A.D. -

Because women in Europe wear very large and outrageous headdresses, the bizarre beauty secret of removing all hair from the eyebrows, eyelashes, temples, and necks becomes tress chic. This is masochistically accomplished by plucking and shaving every day, but a real lady who wants to represent herself in the ideal image of contemporary female beauty, knows this is a must. Sure, this makes a woman seem practically bald and somewhat extraterrestrial looking, but it is The Look to die for!

1100 - 1199 -

The Twelfth Century radically changes the way many societies dress and groom. In the beginning, FRENCH MEN are wearing non-stop beards, but by the close of the century, almost all chins were clean-shaven.

MID to LATE 1700s -

Both men and women remove all hair from the forehead to wear artificial press-on mouseskin eyebrows.

EARLY 1800s -

European women are still concocting homemade depilatories in the kitchen.

1830 -

American men have stopped going out in public with only their shaved, baldheads. They now wear hairpieces or hats.

1903 -

GILLETTE begins his legendary climb to the top as king of the U.S. shaving market, thanks to his shaver’s high quality, low price affordability, and his keen approach to marketing. In 1903, his total sales were 51 razors and 168 blades.

1904 -

GILLETTE'S total sales for the new state-of-the-art safety razor reach 90,000 razors and 123,000 blades.

Valentin 6:03 pm on March 12, 2010 | # | Reply

There are social conventions we have to apply somewhere. In this context, it was not sexist, because a male violinist would not be able to do so either.

Sure the social convention that dictates women to shave their arm pits is ridiculous. I would not mind to see a female athlete with hair there. But this is not the same context.
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Your comment prompted me think about how sports is one of the few public rituals where there has been a much more vivid shift for acceptance for women's aggressive behavior (which consequently is tied into current concepts of femininity and masculinity). To a large extent, this also includes accepting more "masculine" looks for women in sports, given that the same looks would be completely deplored elsewhere.

I don't argue that femininity is bad in its essence, or that it should be done away with, but that it has often been defined in partially harmful ways and has messed up a lot of women's psyches. And it's these aspects of definitions of femininity that need changing. Since, from a moral perspective, I see aggressiveness just like a knife (it can be used to kill some innocent victim or to make a sandwich for someone who is hungry), not every exercise of aggressiveness in sports is a good thing, for men or for women. Thus, as many women become more and more a photocopy of men, there is a mix of good and bad in that process just as well.

I'm an 18 year old and I stopped shaving my legs and underarms more than a year ago. I don't know how many other American girls my age are the same way, but I wouldn't be surprised if I was the only student in my school who is this way.

I stopped because I realized that I didn't like shaving. To me, it was a waste of time because I hardly ever (at that time) wore anything shorter than knee-length or short sleeves, because I'm a little bit curvier and have never been one to show off my body - another thing society has brainwashed me with; fat people can't show skin.
It's funny that when I stopped shaving I started to feel a lot more confident in my body, because if I didn't do the one thing women are "supposed" to do, there was nothing I couldn't feel confident about.
Since then I've taken to wearing whatever I like, with or without tights, in public. I love my body hair, and I actually find body hair very sexy on men. On women, I think it says that a woman has learned to love herself.

People need to understand that not shaving ≠ not showering. Yes, you can not shave and be clean at the same time.

Surprisingly enough, body hair is only as unhygienic as society makes it out to be by brainwashing us by telling us that it is something to be ashamed of, and it is something to spend money on.

As for the case of deodorant, because I'm fairly health-conscious, I stopped using antiperspirants because of the ingredients involved and the fact that they didn't even work in the first place.

Fact is, the body HAS to sweat. You don't sweat, you die from toxic buildup in your system. However, I'm sure many women who take themselves too seriously would rather die than (heaven forbid) to show the world that they are humans.

I use crystal body deodorant that works by using natural minerals that fight against odor-producing bacteria. You still sweat but don't smell (unless you don't apply it to CLEAN skin, post-shower). I also use it on my feet because my feet sweat a lot when I don't wear socks with shoes, and it's amazing how well it eliminates odor.

I was about to applaud Dove for caring about "real beauty" and not using the same tactics that other beauty product companies do to pressure women into buying their product. Then I saw this commercial, and I scoffed.

But then again, if Dove didn't have deodorant to sell, all they'd have is their formaldehyde-laden hair products that caused my skin to break out in bumps.

Love yourself.

I'm NOT a woman, but I don't like my own armpit hair, so I shave my pits. I find armpit hair in general ugly, on men or on women - but I also think that other people don't necessarily need to have the same concepts of beauty and ugliness as I have. My own aesthetic principles apply to me and my world, everybody is free to do what they want. Nobody has to do anything - other than die, of course, that's something we all have to do in the end.

As a male, I consider myself a white collar hippy. I like to look professional with a tie and such when I need to. I, however, hate the way things have gone with shaving and all that hair removal jazz. I hate make up on women, I hate unnatural fragrance or the masking of natural scents. I hate that social conditioning makes women and men insecure about their own bodies, I broke free from it all surprisingly early in puberty when I found an old playboy that showed women with pubic hair.

The most shock and awe moment in my life was a day at the beach when I saw a feminist in a bikini with hairy legs, arms, pubic area, long happy trail, pits, the works. No make up, light tan, and clearly such strong confidence. I was only still in my teens, and she was clearly over 25, so I had no chance. I didn't have the guts to say what a beautiful woman she was as I was in swim trunks and I was having a hard enough time hiding my "excitement."

Sad though, even rebel girls trying to gain some confidence slather on more gunk than the average one. Hippy chicks can be cool, but remind me too much of hippy guys. Too many drugs, too little care for themselves which results in not shaving just from being lazy, not because they want to. I have a large amount of hair on the top of my head, and I keep it clean despite my inner hippy. A vinegar rinse in the shower is amazing for the hair, and is completely natural.

I just need to find another white collar hippy I guess. They are hard to find, as one wouldn't know I am. One wouldn't know how much I love heavy metal either, so I will keep searching.

I applaud any woman who forgos the pressure of shavings and fragrance. Natural is not just sexier/more beautiful, it makes life easier. Guys and other women need to stop judging women who take the natural path.

I am a 14 year old and I have not shaved my legs. I really dislike the fact boys always look at women's leg and they make an impression of what the woman is like because of legs. Just because someone has not shaved their legs, does not mean they are unclean. You can be clean at the same time by not even having your legs shaved. 

If it was not for society and the attraction boys have towards girls seeing them hairless, I would not have to feel this way today.

Boys should understand that no human being is hairless, girls going through puberty have pubic hair and that even applies to women who are at the age of 20 or older until the age of 50. 

I am not even planning to shave my leg hair ever but I don't know how long that will last as society always has a judgement over this issue, especially with girls like me who like to preserve the nature of their legs.