This interview originally appeared in the Ms. Magazine Blog and is re-posted with permission.
In Part I of my interview with Gail Dines, the self-described anti-porn feminist discussed sexual freedom, coercion, safety and harm. Part II continues the conversation. And this time, porn actors respond.
Shira Tarrant: Your new book, PORNLAND: How Porn Has Hijacked our Sexuality (Beacon Press), is out this month. When readers pick up this book, what do you want them to know by the time they put it down?
Gail Dines: I want people to understand that porn is a business with considerable political clout and the capacity to lobby politicians, engage in expensive legal battles and use public relations to influence public debate. Like the tobacco industry, this is not a simple matter of consumer choice; rather, the business is increasingly able to deploy a sophisticated and well-resourced marketing machine, not just to push its wares but also to cast the industry’s image in a positive light.
These are not fun, creative, playful images that feed our sexual imaginations but instead are industrial products that depict a type of sex that is formulaic, generic and plasticized.
ST: I know you’re concerned about harm to women. In Pornland you describe on-the-job injuries sustained by some porn actors–for example, HPV, genital bruising and HIV. All forms of work involve exploitation and risk, whether it’s dying on an oil rig, developing carpal tunnel syndrome or being exposed to asbestos–what makes risks in porn any worse than other workplace dangers?
GD: HPV or genital bruising are generally not listed as job hazards. Women who do porn talk about anal prolapse and surgery [for repair]. The injuries in porn leave long-lasting emotional impacts. The level of abuse and violence to women in porn stands out. There is the psychological trauma of having one’s body treated in this way. It is a very intimate form of abuse. Articles from the porn industry press reveal how difficult and demanding the job is and that women can’t last that long in the industry because of injury.
*****
I asked folks in the porn industry for their responses to Gail Dines’ claim that porn physically traumatizes women. Beth Brigham disagrees. (Brigham was formerly Dines’ research assistant and worked in porn.) She reports:
There’s no emotional trauma from a sex act that you’re prepared for. If you know in advance what you’re going to be doing, you are ready. If I have a day where I’m doing seven penetrations, I know what to do to insure that my body remains healthy. Sex acts don’t happen by accident in porn and you know how to deal with them in advance.
April Flores, a BBW adult actress, adds:
“There is no doubt porn is a very physical job. However, it is also a very individualized profession. Each performer is responsible for their own physical health. A performer always has the choice of not doing something they are not comfortable with. All of my peers are doing work they feel proud of and that enhances and expands on their own sexuality. Gail Dines thinks all performers are victims and this couldn’t be further from the truth.
I also need to point out that many people outside the industry are having rough sex by choice. I’ve heard quite a few stories of people [in the general population] going a little too hard and hurting themselves.
Dines worries about increasing rates of anal sex caused by men who watch gonzo and convince women to bend over–never mind the missing data, non-het sex or women’s sexual agency. It’s unclear that porn is behind this alleged trend, and the tone implies there’s something wrong with human proclivity.
Then there’s the matter of spanking, teasing, topping or switching. Here’s what Dines says:
Pornographers are controlling sexuality. Sexuality is coming out of an industry not imagination. Porn contributes to more BDSM because [it] appeals to bored and desensitized porn users. This isn’t about sex but about corporatizating desire. It’s not an accident that there’s more BDSM activity now.
Again, there’s the question of evidence. And didn’t Dines say that private sex is a personal matter?
By phone, Dines tells me that what people do sexually is none of her business. “I’m not talking about constraining sexuality, but creating sexuality that is based on respect and equality. I’m not against sex,” Dines says. Her concern is about “the business of porn, not the practice of private pleasure.” But perhaps that line is blurry.
To be continued in Part III …
Above image: “Three Nudes and Reclining Man” (1934) by Ernst Kirchner, public domain. From Wikimedia Commons.
Comments 4
Wioleta — May 23, 2011
The problem with Gail Dines is that she considers women working in porn as victims. Contrarily to what she wants to be true, porn actresses choose to be so. And no, they're not poor women who don't have other choices. Some of them are even college-educated. Gail Dines also think that these women can't possibly enjoy the sex they're having on camera, which is also untrue. Plus, people didn't wait for porn to enjoy sodomy and other sex acts that are apparently abnormal/unenjoyable to Mrs Dines. About bdsm for example..many men who watch porn will never have bdsm sex, so saying that porn is responsible for some sex acts is just a stupid assumption. Yes, bdsm IS pleasurable to some people, whether it disgusts Gail or not. To sum it up: not all people have the same sexuality as you Mrs Dines. Nobody forces you to watch porn, and you should stop trying to impose your limited view of sexuality on women, who fought so hard to be liberated of the "good girl who can only enjoy missionary, otherwise she's a slut" chains. It's time to go out of your ivory tower..
From a female woman who likes porn (and whose boyfriend is no sexual predator trying to force her to have anal sex, for God's sake).
the epistemologer — June 14, 2012
Wioleta,
You mention 'porn actresses choose to be so.' The word 'choice' implies that there was one other viable option out there. What was their other option? Perhaps they do enjoy the sex they're having on camera, so with that in mind, they'd be willing to enjoy it for minimum wage, right? Mrs. Dines never said that line you mentioned "...otherwise she's a slut". Who are you quoting?
Yes, it's true that people didn't wait for porn to enjoy sodomy and other sex acts, as it has been depicted in ancient cave paintings and greek cookware. but that's comparing human curiosity to a multi-billion dollar global industry. Sure, nobody forces any of us to watch porn, but how can we not? We're surrounded by it everywhere we go.
Maybe your sexuality hasn't been hijacked by porn and you can enjoy whatever you're into with your partner from a healthy place, as it sounds from how you briefly describe your relationship, but it appears you're insinuating porn as harmless. Suffering goes into the creation of porn to a large degree, and just because someone likes veal, fur coats or shopping at Walmart, it does not erase the suffering that went into making that product.
Marni Durtsche — April 9, 2013
Do you have a spam issue on this blog; I also am a blogger, and I was wanting to know your situation; we have developed some nice procedures and we are looking to trade techniques with other folks, be sure to shoot me an email if interested.
magnapress — August 21, 2014
Thanks for finally writing about >Porn: Pleasure or Profit?
Shira Tarrant Interviews Gail Dines, Part II