Reminds me of Milne's "Vespers", which at first presents an appearance of being a celebration of infant piety: "Little boy kneels at the foot of the bed/Droops on the little hands little gold head/Hush! Hush! Whisper who dares!/Christopher Robin is saying his prayers"; but in the very next stanza, proceeds into a gentle, mockery of the very concept of infant piety: "God bless Mummy. I know that's right./Wasn't it fun in the bath tonight?/The cold's so cold, and the hot's so hot./Oh! God bless Daddy. I quite forgot." From there it goes on into a child's normal bedtime ritual -- a reiteration of the high points of his day and of the things important to him, such as curling up in his dressing gown with the hood pulled up, so "nobody knows that I'm there at all" -- interspersed with occasional repetitions of "God bless _____". Not because he has at four any idea what a God is, or what it means for it to "bless" or "not bless" this one or that one, but because he's been taught that that's what he's to do at day's end: recite the names of people important to him, each preceded with the syllables "God bless".

"Saying his prayers" Christopher Robin may be, but praying in any mature sense is the last thing he can be said to be doing -- any more than little Ava Grace can be said to be "worshiping".

Reminds me of my son picking up my behaviors, such as sweeping. Ava Grace certainly isn't worshipping here, but is just mimicking her parents and the other people around her. I can guarantee she has no conceptus of a deity.

This terrifies me. I actually cried.

Jesus Camp much?

This is quite nifty that's she has picked up on the patterns so completely.

I'm not sure why this is terrifying. Almost everything we do has a certain amount of order or stylization. Why would you expect this in the ritualized practices of worship. What ritual doesn't have some sort of pattern, rhythm and/or required behaviors?

The kid is there... might as well participate. Looks like she's having fun.

It's not that disturbing to see a baby mimicking everyone else, I don't even think a baby like this old has to be taught directly how to make all the gestures they see around them in their environment. It is just similar to cute videos I've seen of toddlers folding their arms like mom or dad do, or doing the same exercises they see from the tv.

But, being an atheist, I see this as an opening for indoctrination. Children have no defenses or critical judgment when they begin to be taught to reject reality (like the age of the earth) or what kinds of people to hate, for example.

I think it's cute. Just mimicking the motions, or picking up her parents' religion? There's really no inherent problem there. Unless we know something about the church itself, I think making a judgement that this is 'chilling' is pretty knee-jerk. This is a BABY. It doesn't believe anything sexist or racist or homophobic yet.

Really, she is just a very observant and intelligent little girl with a gift for mimicry. She's a BABY, and probably will be a great actress some day, if she chooses. There is nothing about it that is ominous--unless you don't favor that style of religious expression (or don't like the music much).

The only weird thing about this to me is that in my experience when children that small mimic, they break periodically and laugh about what they are doing. But in this video, the child breaks and just looks expectantly at the observer (her mother?) with a serious expression. The girl appears to want validation that her behaviour is correct, not validation that she is being clever or funny for acting like something she is not (an adult).

It really isn't that much different from the many other videos of toddler mimicry except for that lack of humor on the part of the child. I don't think this is a function of it being religious mimicry or some other sociological thing necessarily, but it does seem to give some comment on how this child relates this performance to the observer in question.

In just seven more years she'll be ready to marry a prophet.

There was a Viral Video Film School roundup of similar videos. It's played for laughs so it's not terribly insightful, but is a good selection of clips on that theme.

The creepy, disdainful language of this article aside; I'd like to make a quick general reply to some of the comments I've read here.
To those who say that the child cannot possibly have a concept of God and is merely mimicking her surroundings: I don't know about you all, but I had a fully developed concept of God by the time I was five (I have very little memory before then, so I can't be more precise), and I /wasn't/ raised in an extremely religious environment. I wouldn't make the assumption that she doesn't understand a basic idea of faith just because she's very young.
Also, I don't see anyone else in the church behaving in this way (though they may be off-screen), and the whole affair seems very informal.
To those who are "frightened": Really? /Really/, people? This scares you? Goodness, your life must be miserable. Do children in baptism outfits and choirs send you into fits of terrified weeping?
To some of the other commenters: Dayum, it doesn't take long for this community to get right into the bigotry, does it? "don’t pretend that the institutional actions of the church aren’t racist, homophobic, or sexist. They absolutely are" is particularly egregious, since it shows not only and extremely selective education but also an assumption that anyone who disagrees with you does so just because they haven't "looked it up". Bravo, Reebcca and others, you've admirably provided some comedy.

I find it very sad to see a child mimicking behaviour in this way.Children will do the same with sexual behaviour, aggression, violence and will pick up on adult expectations quickly.Children have the right to develop their own identities not a cloned copy of someone else as we sometimes see in adoption.

I am not insane Syd, but I believe that you (and everyone who believes in Abrahamic faiths) might be. It has EVERYTHING to do with Catholicism and what you said. I believe you said:
"A lot of people point to the official doctrines of a give denomination to explain why members of the denomination are X, Y, and Z, failing to take into account that almost no one of any given group follows every single rule set out by the church, and this includes priests/pastors/etc."
well, here goes,
You DO NOT GET to choose which parts of Dogma you are allowed to follow! The biggest problem with religious documents is their infallibility. Once you slap ‘this is the word of god’ on something, it is practically impossible to change it.
You also claimed:
"I really have no idea about this particular church in question, so that is why my opinion remains neutral on it. However, most of your assertions on Catholicism are outdated and just patently false..."
How would you know? You are obviously so wrapped up in your faith that you have not even NOTICED how outdated the Catholic concept is. With AIDS and overpopulation, being rampant is the time to open all options of containment of disease transmission and not grudgingly entertain the idea of condom use. With the increasingly disturbing trend appearing in the clergy of homosexual pedophilic behaviors, it is not the time to ignore the problem and insist upon internal investigations. Sex is a natural drive, like eating and breathing, and to suppress it in its clergy the Catholics are encouraging men of twisted sexual orientation to enter the priesthood. By not pushing for priest marriage and female priests, YOU and every other Catholic in the world allows the sexual abuse that is occurring right now all over the world.
I am SICK of self-righteous clowns like you who have not even BOTHERED to read the Bible or critically analyze your faith historically. For centuries the priesthood sold indulgences to the wealthy while keeping the masses ignorant (priests used to be the almost the only people who could read and speak Latin, and since the mass was in Latin it had to be interpreted for the peasants). The ritual of eating fish on Fridays during lent came directly from a Papal desire to aid Italy’s fishing industry.
My claims of hypocrisy stands. You claim that Christians are persecuted in a country SET UP TO SATISFY THEIR SLIGHTEST IGNORANT WHIMS! You are wallowing in faith-based disinformation, as illustrated by the surprise you show when questioned about the simplest inconsistencies in your religion’s cloud of conflicting facts.

I embedded (or linked if the embed fails) a similar video to compare with this one. It's of another toddler responding to music in a way that parents find adorable, but who seems to me to possess a lot more spontaneity and joy while doing it. This kid (Baby Bob Marley) seems more child-like to me than the one in the "Baby worship!!!!!" clip (and so does his dad for that matter). Compared to Baby Bob, Worshipping Baby looks stern and world-weary and something tells me that's not a coincidence.

But anyway, I'm not sure if this embed code thing is going to work so I'll include a link too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd5yN43TqCk&feature=related

It seems that there are a lot of people here that don't understand *reall* basic concepts of developmental and social psychology... Are children supposed to be grown in a Lucite box until they are 18, then released pure to the world?!

It's funny that this example of ritualized behavior is so strange to folks. It's as if they don't recognize that huge swaths of our lives are similarly structured/defined/practiced. Speech patterns, accents, cadence.... mannerisms... social behaviors like shaking hands, waving, nodding, personal space, etc.

Growing up in a religious household and being "indoctrinated" from a young age is not inherently harmful. Studies routinely show that persons with a strong religious faith, as typified by the indoctrination so feared in these comments, typically exhibit better personal health, both physically and mentally. There is also a strong correlation between active participation in religious activity and participation in charitable works.

It is shameful to see the supposedly educated persons in this comment thread immediately tarring all religions as harmful and hateful. I'm saying that this is an assault on all religions because none are absent leaders who are abusive, hate-filled or extortionate. If you do insist that it is the Christian aspect of this video which is so distressing, then you are "persecuting Christians" because you are saying that it is specifically Christianity which our children should be kept separate from! There is no denying that Christianity has a distinct privilege in the US society but it is also one of the preferred targets of anti-religion agitators. But the entire gamut of Christian sects are not particularly more or less socially liberal than any of the other major religions.

This child in particular has been associated with a regressive Christian church which is sexist, homophobic and quite probably racist. But that does not mean that she will necessarily grow to be a sexist/racist/homophobic Christian. It doesn't even mean that she will grow up to be a Christian! Or that she will suffer mental anguish in processing her beliefs. And in actuality, there is not particularly strong evidence that this child is being raised in this particular church. It could be the church attended by her grandparents and she is just visiting. She could have learned the "Evangelical dance" at a different church which espouses an entirely different brand of Christianity. I noticed that no one else in the audience was putting on the exact display shown by the child. We are projecting a lot onto this one video and the future of this one girl about which we know nothing.

It is just deeply frustrating to see such blanket condemnation of Christianity when the beliefs held by individual Christians do not necessarily correspond to the condemnations. Catholicism is unique in that it is led by the Vatican and a deeply conservative hierarchy, but most of the Protestant denominations are not hierarchical. In fact, a good number of Protestant sects hold a doctrine of church autonomy, where each collection of believers are allowed to construct their own interpretation of Christian behavior without respect to the beliefs of any other church. Most of the Protestant sects which do retain the Catholic hierarchical model are also more liberal than the Roman Catholic Church.

Being simply a Christian makes you no more or less likely to be sexist, homophobic or racist than any non-Christian. I've known plenty of sexist, racist, and homophobic athiests. Believing or not believing in a religious tradition does not make you an inherently better or worse person.

This just in :

Children are impressionable, specifically toddlers.

More at 11:00.

Then what may i ask the child be indoctrinated into? Atheism, skepticism, agnosticism? What proof does anybody have in this room that God does not exist? I can guarantee that the most plausible explanation for the existence of the universe is God, further more that Jesus Christ did live and was exactly who he claimed to be. What you call religion, is actually tradition and without salvation you have no connection to the living God and you are exactly what the secular anti-theists call you, a meatbag and nothing more. What Jesus Christ came to re-establish was a relationship, a connection with the living God. What the world wants is to live a life outside of the view of an All seeing God and be "free" to live in whichever debauchery it pronounces as good, as long as the strongest majority agree that its good. Jesus Christ is the way, truth, and the life, beyond him there is none other. Your conscious convicts you of sin even if you think you have hardened your heart against it. Repent and believe.

Nothing is unrealistic. Everything is Limited. Hell is not a threat, just as death is not a threat. Expose the child to truth. The vast majority of the evidence points to Jesus Christ, none of it that i am aware of points to an alternative.

That is, none of the evidence that has been presented so far points more strongly to an alternative reality.

Anyone afraid of this?

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/more-sexy-toy-makeovers-my-little-pony-rainbow-brite-and-candy-land/#

Or this?
http://thesocietypages.org/citings/2009/11/19/hungry-kids/

Hey guys!

Just saying, I know that a lot of Christians are really loud and really sort of mean, judgmental people, but you know, a lot of us are friendly, liberal, accepting people, too!

I know that a lot of Christians have focused on telling people they are going to hell instead of loving their neighbor as themselves, but the Bible we're meant to follow says we aren't to judge others, and there are still a lot of us who understand and follow this!

Please, please, please, don't judge all of us based on the actions of a few. So many Christians are struggling to let people know that our religion is about love rather than hate and fear, only to be faced back with hate and fear over, well, any indication of being religious whatsoever. It's discouraging.

That said, I think this kid's just mimicking people she sees and enjoying the music around her. If she did it on her own, good for her. If her parents forced her--and it doesn't look like they did--then shame on them, and hopefully she will have options presented to her to think for herself once she's a bit older.

"Just saying, I know that a lot of Christians are really loud and really sort of mean, judgmental people, but you know, a lot of us are friendly, liberal, accepting people, too!" I agree also I have met many an agnostic/atheist that are like that as well as in judgemental, bigoted and dogmatic.

Fact we are humans who like to socially interact with people of similar backgrounds and understandings. I am sick of hateful people religious or non religious. I am not disturbed or upset by the video I was raised in a fairly strict religious household similar things that have been said about this church. somehow I grew up and found my own mind usually it happens around about the 13/14 age mark for me anyway. My family were racist, homophobes, white and middle class. I realised that this is not how I wanted to be and made a choice. By the time I was 18 and left home I did not attend church or even consider myself religious. For me I found it contradictory. This child if she so chooses may see things differently and may not grow up to be a follower of this particular religion.

We all copy and we all want to fit in, just how humans are. I am against extremism be it religion or just a ideology or a non belief. People are the ones who are extreme it is not the religion. People might be drawn to a particular belief or non belief depending on their experiences and who they are.

I have to admit I laughed when I watched the video I did not cry and I am a atheist. This is a child and little toddler they all copy some kids are serious when they copy. This is nothing to be ashamed about it is what is actually being taught not the child copying some dance moves.

quoting vodalus: 1. Village Idiot explicitly called my claim to know (of) many non-religious people exhibiting the exact same traits condemned in extremist sects to be “bullshit”. Others have implied that these hatreds are in some way unique to religious belief. Thus I provided contemporary examples of a high-profile atheist and a large, influential community well known for both atheism and privileging white male heterosexuals.

Oh, so now so it's "I’ve known ABOUT plenty of sexist, racist, and homophobic athiests [sic]" instead of just "I know?" I presume that's because I was correct in calling bullshit the way it was written.

My agenda is based on the fact that I got sick and tired of people bashing on the concept of believing in a God or gods.

Wait, who was doing that? It might surprise you to learn that I am not in any way an atheist. I believe in direct experience, and my direct experiences include things I call "puzzling evidence" that confirm my suspicion that there's more going on in this Multiverse than meets the eye. But that's intensely personal and completely subjective so I keep it to myself just like I wish the conventionally-religious would start doing (and were commanded by Jesus to do too; He didn't like ostentatious displays of piety from what I hear).

What I bash, and will always bash, is the idea that there has to be a middle-man between us and the divine or transcendent or whatever you want to call your collection of Puzzling Evidence. It's the "organized" in organized religion that is the plague doing the real damage. Once you personally, directly experience the transcendent then the barely coherent mumblings of men in funny hats who try to describe what they themselves have in all probability not experienced begins to sound positively pitiful. When I see how those mumblings are used to lead the well-meaning but uneducated around by the nose so as to control them politically it makes me actively pissed off. They're snakes selling snake-oil. The new neo-shamanic paradigm that will hopefully supplant organized religion ASAP is not afraid of quantum physics, or Stephen Hawking's new book, or what particle accelerators might discover, or Kurt Vonnegut's comments about Humanism, etc. but it also acknowledges that some questions are unanswerable (like "why?" for instance) and that there's something irrationally special about our brief spark of self-awareness. I just wish theologians would quit running around trying to extinguish those sparks and replacing them with stories about other people's sparks. The menu is not the meal, the books are not God, and "God" isn't really even God because no word can contain such a concept.

Focusing on the hatred ignores those members of the group who actively fight against hatred.

I guess we're just judging the tree by its fruit, as suggested in the Book of Matthew. And Jesus once said "a divided house cannot stand" or something like that, so if some members of a religion hate and others fight hatred then it seems to me that such a religion has got major issues in need of addressing lest it's existence be doomed from internal conflicts and contradictions. How can semi-rational, thinking people be expected to join such a schizophrenic, confused scene? Is religion the Inquisition and the violent Jihad or is religion compassion and a means for easing suffering? It's certainly not both, even if both claim to embody the "true" meaning of the word. One of those groups has got to find a new label or people are going to keep throwing out the proverbial worshipping baby with the bathwater.

I don’t mean to silence. I mean for people to differentiate their accusations.

It'd be a lot easier if y'all differentiated yourselves for us. Since "The last Christian died on the cross" (that's Nietzsche being a smartass), it's time for a re-branding; a new name, new image, the works. Let the pro-Medieval Dark Age crowd have the Bibles and Korans and Torahs and the rest and y'all form the Church of Direct Experience or something (a PR firm should be consulted for the name) and get together to talk about what God told you that week (or quantum physics, or whatever), not what someone else thinks God told a guy 2000+ years ago...

It is just a baby dancing at a church that is all, maybe people are reading more into it than is really required.

Taken from the you tube sight:

" Rosie Cafarelli, Mom of Ava Grace made this video while on assignment for a News Story. Totally shocked and tickled while Ava Grace was following along. So I caught her on video" I don't think this was indoctrination it was just a kid copying plain and simple no need for a them and us religious talk or people to scream abuse. [the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned]

People are reading to much into this video there are many others that could do with a close view example Jesus camp or similar. Or abuse in countries around the world. Not a kid dancing to a church she has never been to before.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=11333 a article that some may wish to comment on. Found it as I was reading the online opinion.

Unlike many of the people here, I went and looked at the church's website. I did find that there was a LOT to be concerned about. This is the church at the center of the "Lakeland Outpouring" a so-called revival led by Todd Bentley. Bentley is known for claims of having raised the dead and for having smacked around those attending his worship sessions, claiming to be led by the Holy Spirit to do things like kick an elderly woman.

The source link provided for the Anorak news, claims that this shows "the number of children and young people that are being touched by the anointing of God. Signs and Wonders are following the Word of God being preached!" so this is a church that claims that a small child's mimicry is real faith. Having spoken to those who were raised in the Pentacostal faith in churches similar to this one, blind child-like acceptance is encouraged and questioning of the church, its pastor or its tenets is seen as proof that you have what this church refers to as a"stronghold" that needs to be "cured" by the Holy Spirit.

What's scary about this video is not the child, but how the community interprets her actions.

Seriously. The bigotry needs to stop. Now.

I think it might be helpful to think of religious identity as similar to nationality.

There are many, many things various arms of the US government has done, is doing, and no doubt will do with which I disagree -- nevermind all the various acts committed by any number of US citizens. And yet, I am an American -- it's where I was born and raised and where my family is, and I am unlikely to move away and sever my citizenship, despite my disagreements with the government and many of its citizens.

It takes a lot to get someone to up and change their national allegiance (typically, unbearable living conditions in their country of origin). Many people who feel they have no option but to change their nation of residence still retain close ties to their nation of origin, still have an emotional investment in its people and practices and fate.

So -- even though I can't remember the last time I attended a church service -- I still feel a little twinge of recognition and belonging every time I see a sign that says, "The Episcopal Church welcomes you."

I'm lucky that, of all the various faiths and denominations I could've been raised in, the mainline Episcopal Church aligns fairly well with my adult values. But even if it *didn't*, I suspect I'd still feel that little twinge, because even if I'm an expat now, it's still my religious homeland.

Even for people who have negative experiences and a different relationship with the faith in which they were raised, I think the analogy still might work -- they're comparable to immigrants who take a more critical stance regarding the country they left (Cuban-Americans, say).

Does that analogy make any sense at all to folks on either side of the argument?

i also find religions to be actively harmful to society and i wish people would let go of them eventually but i guess i won't see that in my lifetime since they have so much power..

katerina, what did you mean by:

"Religion is nothing like a race or a nationality. It’s inside your head."
i mean, isn't the notion of race also purely ideological and without a scientific base?

this whole indoctrination discussion reminded me of this 9 year old austrian girl who during a conversation about religion asked "what's adam and eve?". she thought the whole talking snake thing was vey funny.

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This article was published 13 years ago, yet nothing has changed. The church or other religious groups remain the same. We have to stand for justice and freedom.

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