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	<title>Comments on: Battle in the Dark: Syria&#8217;s Communication Blackout</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/</link>
	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
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		<title>By: mimimur</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565445</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mimimur]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 21:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565445</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good points, though my guess is that someone specialized in solciology rather than political science would be more likely to think of Bell than any traditional realists. 

You&#039;re right about the significance. I&#039;d point out that internet connections would be vital for the outside world to follow event through channels with less risk of being biased towards the regime. Then again we&#039;re not exactly the most prominent threat to it. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, though my guess is that someone specialized in solciology rather than political science would be more likely to think of Bell than any traditional realists. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right about the significance. I&#8217;d point out that internet connections would be vital for the outside world to follow event through channels with less risk of being biased towards the regime. Then again we&#8217;re not exactly the most prominent threat to it. </p>
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		<title>By: StevenW</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565414</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevenW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 02:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565414</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are you serious?  This makes you upset? ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you serious?  This makes you upset? </p>
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		<title>By: JennyDavis</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565413</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JennyDavis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 02:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, that&#039;s the point. It was in the interest of the gov&#039;t to maintain these channels. When this ceased to be the case, the government stopped maintaining them]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, that&#8217;s the point. It was in the interest of the gov&#8217;t to maintain these channels. When this ceased to be the case, the government stopped maintaining them</p>
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		<title>By: russ</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565390</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 20:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt; The real question then, is why did the government maintain these channels for so long?

That&#039;s simple: it was because the Syrian government used trickery to surreptitiously capture activists&#039; passwords and thus access their email, contact lists, etc, making it easier to identify and arrest them.

E.g. see http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-15/the-hackers-of-damascus
&quot;Users who tried to access Facebook in Syria were presented with a fake 
security certificate that triggered a warning on most browsers. People 
who ignored it and logged in would be giving up their user name and 
password, and with them, their private messages and contacts.&quot; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; The real question then, is why did the government maintain these channels for so long?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s simple: it was because the Syrian government used trickery to surreptitiously capture activists&#8217; passwords and thus access their email, contact lists, etc, making it easier to identify and arrest them.</p>
<p>E.g. see <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-15/the-hackers-of-damascus" rel="nofollow">http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-15/the-hackers-of-damascus</a><br />
&#8220;Users who tried to access Facebook in Syria were presented with a fake<br />
security certificate that triggered a warning on most browsers. People<br />
who ignored it and logged in would be giving up their user name and<br />
password, and with them, their private messages and contacts.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: WG</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565387</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why is this in Soc Images?  It&#039;s just a graph, and one that is really not necessary.  Just as informative would be text saying, &quot;Syria had access to 78 routed networks, but at about 10:23, they lost all of them.&quot;   Taa Daa!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is this in Soc Images?  It&#8217;s just a graph, and one that is really not necessary.  Just as informative would be text saying, &#8220;Syria had access to 78 routed networks, but at about 10:23, they lost all of them.&#8221;   Taa Daa!</p>
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		<title>By: WT</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565377</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 09:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The idea that states act in their own interest long predates Bell. His innovation was to say that this is the case specifically in the case of race relations - to take it back to general politics is to take it back to realist international relations theorists; the traditional citation would be Machiavelli, though plenty of C20th scholars developed the theory more explicitly. 


I&#039;d also like to see some evidence that the Syrian government is more effective than the Egyptian or Libyan governments at using the internet as a tool of oppression. I&#039;ve not heard that before. 
My bet is that the later shutdown has more to do with the internet&#039;s importance; we may be experiencing the Syrian revolution via Youtube, but most Syrians aren&#039;t. Internet penetration is less than 20%, and most access is through the dangerously public internet cafes. Download speeds are incredibly slow (wiki cites 768kbits) and broadband is non-existent - they aren&#039;t streaming videos. Only the most privileged (and therefore most on-side, in general) have better access than that. 

(OTOH, Egyptian access, while faster, isn&#039;t much more widely available, so I may be wrong about that being the trigger).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that states act in their own interest long predates Bell. His innovation was to say that this is the case specifically in the case of race relations &#8211; to take it back to general politics is to take it back to realist international relations theorists; the traditional citation would be Machiavelli, though plenty of C20th scholars developed the theory more explicitly. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d also like to see some evidence that the Syrian government is more effective than the Egyptian or Libyan governments at using the internet as a tool of oppression. I&#8217;ve not heard that before. <br />
My bet is that the later shutdown has more to do with the internet&#8217;s importance; we may be experiencing the Syrian revolution via Youtube, but most Syrians aren&#8217;t. Internet penetration is less than 20%, and most access is through the dangerously public internet cafes. Download speeds are incredibly slow (wiki cites 768kbits) and broadband is non-existent &#8211; they aren&#8217;t streaming videos. Only the most privileged (and therefore most on-side, in general) have better access than that. </p>
<p>(OTOH, Egyptian access, while faster, isn&#8217;t much more widely available, so I may be wrong about that being the trigger).</p>
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		<title>By: mimimur</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565358</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mimimur]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 23:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wrong. The implications of the theory is that the state will refrain from shutting down key resources for the restistance as long as these resources can be useful for the government itself. It&#039;s not used inthe exact same way as oroginally written, but the mechanics are the same and it fits into a preexisting framework (rational choice, more or less). You could have gotten the same reasoning from the theory that states that dictators only give up power as long as they can keep their capital and privileges. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wrong. The implications of the theory is that the state will refrain from shutting down key resources for the restistance as long as these resources can be useful for the government itself. It&#8217;s not used inthe exact same way as oroginally written, but the mechanics are the same and it fits into a preexisting framework (rational choice, more or less). You could have gotten the same reasoning from the theory that states that dictators only give up power as long as they can keep their capital and privileges. </p>
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		<title>By: decius</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565356</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[decius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 21:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Not the first time&lt;/a&gt; that animals have been used to carry internet traffic.

For that matter, pack animals laden with media quite possibly have higher bandwidth than the network infrastructure in Syria; passenger pigeons with SD cards outperformed ASDL networks in first-world countries on that one specific measure of throughput.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers" rel="nofollow">Not the first time</a> that animals have been used to carry internet traffic.</p>
<p>For that matter, pack animals laden with media quite possibly have higher bandwidth than the network infrastructure in Syria; passenger pigeons with SD cards outperformed ASDL networks in first-world countries on that one specific measure of throughput.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted_Howard</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565352</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ted_Howard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This has nothing to do with Bell&#039;s theory in the slightest. All you stated was that expected future costs to the Syrian regime of allowing the internet to operate further have come to exceed the expected future benefits to the Syrian regime. This is a trivial argument that doesn&#039;t require gussying up with some irrelevant race relations theory. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has nothing to do with Bell&#8217;s theory in the slightest. All you stated was that expected future costs to the Syrian regime of allowing the internet to operate further have come to exceed the expected future benefits to the Syrian regime. This is a trivial argument that doesn&#8217;t require gussying up with some irrelevant race relations theory. </p>
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		<title>By: Elena</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565351</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Elena]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 18:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not the first time the government has ordered an online blackout in Syria. It wasn&#039;t particularly useful last time in suppressing communications with the outside either, because you should &lt;a href=&quot;http://boingboing.net/2011/05/15/syrian-dissidents-us.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;never underestimate the bandwidth of a donkey laden with CDs&lt;/a&gt; (or memory cards).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not the first time the government has ordered an online blackout in Syria. It wasn&#8217;t particularly useful last time in suppressing communications with the outside either, because you should <a href="http://boingboing.net/2011/05/15/syrian-dissidents-us.html" rel="nofollow">never underestimate the bandwidth of a donkey laden with CDs</a> (or memory cards).</p>
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		<title>By: JennyDavis</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565347</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JennyDavis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 16:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the comment. I think the divergence happened when the government shut down the Internet. The usefulness of keeping channels open, but as a tactical and PR strategy was no longer worth the cost of facilitating rebel communications ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment. I think the divergence happened when the government shut down the Internet. The usefulness of keeping channels open, but as a tactical and PR strategy was no longer worth the cost of facilitating rebel communications </p>
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		<title>By: htownrep24</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/12/01/the-battle-in-the-dark-syrias-communication-blackout/comment-page-1/#comment-565346</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[htownrep24]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 16:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=52817#comment-565346</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great use of Bell&#039;s interest convergence to make your argument! Great work! There is also the concept of interest divergence (where the powerful end the action which the less powerful benefited from), so my question is, when do you see this happening with Syria?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great use of Bell&#8217;s interest convergence to make your argument! Great work! There is also the concept of interest divergence (where the powerful end the action which the less powerful benefited from), so my question is, when do you see this happening with Syria?</p>
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