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	<title>Comments on: The Kissing Sailor Photograph: An Iconic Image of War, Not Romance</title>
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	<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/</link>
	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2015 07:17:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Sociopress.cz &#187; Fotografie líbajícího námořníka: ikonický obraz války, ne romance</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-599167</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sociopress.cz &#187; Fotografie líbajícího námořníka: ikonický obraz války, ne romance]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2015 18:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-599167</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Zdroj překladu: The Kissing Sailor Photograph: An Iconic Image of War, Not Romance [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Zdroj překladu: The Kissing Sailor Photograph: An Iconic Image of War, Not Romance [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Fotografija mornara koji ljubi medicinsku sestru: ikonska fotografija rata, ne romanse &#187; Centar za društveno-humanistička istraživanja</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-570195</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fotografija mornara koji ljubi medicinsku sestru: ikonska fotografija rata, ne romanse &#187; Centar za društveno-humanistička istraživanja]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 21:27:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-570195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war... Autorica: Wendy Christensen Prevela: Petra [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] <a href="http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war" rel="nofollow">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war</a>&#8230; Autorica: Wendy Christensen Prevela: Petra [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: tralalalalalala37</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-567188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tralalalalalala37]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2013 19:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-567188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This type of kissing isn&#039;t sexual. What tripe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This type of kissing isn&#8217;t sexual. What tripe.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-562719</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 23:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-562719</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
A confession- I did have this poster on my dorm room wall. Taking this post into account, I do see cause for concern. 
So, for those of you (like myself) who no longer feel comfortable with the Times Square photograph but retain a liking for romantic black and white images I want to share my replacement!

As an alternative I chose a poster of one of my favorite sculptures: Rodin&#039;s The Kiss
http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/103439.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kiss_%28Rodin_sculpture%29
Rodin&#039;s sculptures really allow and benefit from extended observation and I feel that this image is great- positive, beautiful, and romantic.
I like how her arm curves around his neck- how obviously into each other they both are.
Their bodies are both relaxed and engaged; to me it is a beautiful image of a private moment.

For the architecture nerds out there, Louis Kahn proposed to his wife in front of this statue in Philadelphia.
 
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A confession- I did have this poster on my dorm room wall. Taking this post into account, I do see cause for concern. <br />
So, for those of you (like myself) who no longer feel comfortable with the Times Square photograph but retain a liking for romantic black and white images I want to share my replacement!</p>
<p>As an alternative I chose a poster of one of my favorite sculptures: Rodin&#8217;s The Kiss<br />
<a href="http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/103439.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kiss_%28Rodin_sculpture%29" rel="nofollow">http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/103439.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kiss_%28Rodin_sculpture%29</a><br />
Rodin&#8217;s sculptures really allow and benefit from extended observation and I feel that this image is great- positive, beautiful, and romantic.<br />
I like how her arm curves around his neck- how obviously into each other they both are.<br />
Their bodies are both relaxed and engaged; to me it is a beautiful image of a private moment.</p>
<p>For the architecture nerds out there, Louis Kahn proposed to his wife in front of this statue in Philadelphia.<br />
 </p>
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		<title>By: Mädchenmannschaft &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Das legendäre &#8220;Kissing Sailor&#8221;-Foto bildet Gewalt ab, keine Romanze</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-562429</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mädchenmannschaft &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Das legendäre &#8220;Kissing Sailor&#8221;-Foto bildet Gewalt ab, keine Romanze]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-562429</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] weitere Einordnung der Ikonographie gibt es bei Sociological [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] weitere Einordnung der Ikonographie gibt es bei Sociological [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Wednesday, October 10 &#8211; Reading Round-up - Feminish</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-562260</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wednesday, October 10 &#8211; Reading Round-up - Feminish]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 22:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-562260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The Kissing Sailor Photograph: An Iconic Image of War, Not Romance: I, personally, grew up well-aware of this iconic photograph, seeing it everywhere from restaurants to textbooks, but never knew the real story behind it, and the severity of its circumstances. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] The Kissing Sailor Photograph: An Iconic Image of War, Not Romance: I, personally, grew up well-aware of this iconic photograph, seeing it everywhere from restaurants to textbooks, but never knew the real story behind it, and the severity of its circumstances. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Gilbert Pinfold</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-562060</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gilbert Pinfold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 11:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-562060</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe for the first time on this blog, I find myself swimming with the mainstream here... Lost for words.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe for the first time on this blog, I find myself swimming with the mainstream here&#8230; Lost for words.</p>
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		<title>By: Sila Mahmud</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-562015</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sila Mahmud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 06:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-562015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[wow.. Fantastic steps.. I really like it. keep up :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow.. Fantastic steps.. I really like it. keep up :-)</p>
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		<title>By: oofstar</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-562011</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[oofstar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 01:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-562011</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[probably during wartime, people are compelled to have sex with eachother for comfort and pleasure, and has nothing to do with &quot;regenerating the species&quot;. 

as for it working &#039;both ways&#039;, yes, sometimes people have joyous consensual sexual encounters and sometimes their sexual encounters are forced or coerced by other people who think their jubilation gives them the right to other people&#039;s bodies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>probably during wartime, people are compelled to have sex with eachother for comfort and pleasure, and has nothing to do with &#8220;regenerating the species&#8221;. </p>
<p>as for it working &#8216;both ways&#8217;, yes, sometimes people have joyous consensual sexual encounters and sometimes their sexual encounters are forced or coerced by other people who think their jubilation gives them the right to other people&#8217;s bodies.</p>
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		<title>By: decius</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-562002</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[decius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-562002</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oddly enough, theatre teaches that the most expressive portion of a kiss (to the audience) should be the ingenue&#039;s hands on the back of the juvenile. In other words, where it matters the most, the code for romantic is consistent with the &#039;iconic&#039; image not being romantic at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oddly enough, theatre teaches that the most expressive portion of a kiss (to the audience) should be the ingenue&#8217;s hands on the back of the juvenile. In other words, where it matters the most, the code for romantic is consistent with the &#8216;iconic&#8217; image not being romantic at all.</p>
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		<title>By: decius</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-562001</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[decius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-562001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Do I contradict myself?

Very well then I contradict myself,

(I am large, I contain multitudes.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
-Walt Whitman

If you can define &#039;truth&#039; in terms of a destination, and &#039;representations&#039; well enough to not refer to anything which can be communicated, then I could probably explain how things which are not representations lead to truth.

Otherwise, I&#039;ll just point out that &quot;truth&quot; means a lot more than &quot;what was happening in front of the camera when this picture was taken&quot;. 

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Do I contradict myself?</p>
<p>Very well then I contradict myself,</p>
<p>(I am large, I contain multitudes.)</p></blockquote>
<p>-Walt Whitman</p>
<p>If you can define &#8216;truth&#8217; in terms of a destination, and &#8216;representations&#8217; well enough to not refer to anything which can be communicated, then I could probably explain how things which are not representations lead to truth.</p>
<p>Otherwise, I&#8217;ll just point out that &#8220;truth&#8221; means a lot more than &#8220;what was happening in front of the camera when this picture was taken&#8221;. </p>
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		<title>By: Donald Frazier</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-561998</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald Frazier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-561998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ Suppose this is just another way to raise the flag...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Suppose this is just another way to raise the flag&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: fork</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-561999</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fork]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-561999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You write: &quot;From their story, we now know that George Mendonsa was on a date with another woman when the Japanese surrendered. After a few drinks at a nearby bar, he went out on the street and grabbed Greta Zimmer Friedman for a kiss.&quot;

The Mail Online writes: &quot;Mendonsa and his date, who would become his  future wife, rushed to a nearby bar where  the sailor admits he ‘popped quite a few drinks.’
As they set on their way, Mendonsa spotted a woman in a nurse’s uniform - he  left Petry and rushed to grab her.&quot;

&quot;He went out on the street&quot; rather than &quot;They went out on the street&quot; sort of leaves the impression that Petry was not by his side, and that, in the excitement, he grabbed the nearest woman.  But if the Mail account is correct, his date was right there, available for assault.  He was not so excited that he spontaneously grabbed a victim.  He actually made a selection there.

And about the excitement.  I&#039;d always thought that what happened was people heard the war was over, there was jubilation in the streets, and the guy grabbed the woman when he heard the news.  But he had time for &quot;quite a few&quot; drinks in between hearing the war was over and assaulting someone.  What an opportunistic creep.

And the Mail saying that they&#039;ve never once reenacted the kiss? I think I need to take a shower.    

 
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write: &#8220;From their story, we now know that George Mendonsa was on a date with another woman when the Japanese surrendered. After a few drinks at a nearby bar, he went out on the street and grabbed Greta Zimmer Friedman for a kiss.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Mail Online writes: &#8220;Mendonsa and his date, who would become his  future wife, rushed to a nearby bar where  the sailor admits he ‘popped quite a few drinks.’<br />
As they set on their way, Mendonsa spotted a woman in a nurse’s uniform &#8211; he  left Petry and rushed to grab her.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;He went out on the street&#8221; rather than &#8220;They went out on the street&#8221; sort of leaves the impression that Petry was not by his side, and that, in the excitement, he grabbed the nearest woman.  But if the Mail account is correct, his date was right there, available for assault.  He was not so excited that he spontaneously grabbed a victim.  He actually made a selection there.</p>
<p>And about the excitement.  I&#8217;d always thought that what happened was people heard the war was over, there was jubilation in the streets, and the guy grabbed the woman when he heard the news.  But he had time for &#8220;quite a few&#8221; drinks in between hearing the war was over and assaulting someone.  What an opportunistic creep.</p>
<p>And the Mail saying that they&#8217;ve never once reenacted the kiss? I think I need to take a shower.    </p>
<p> </p>
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		<title>By: Donald Frazier</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-561997</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald Frazier]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-561997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[True that.  But it works both ways.  Relatives who were in wartime situations, men and women, say that everyone had a free pass for as much sex as possible and many things like this were expected, forgiven, and often reciprocated. My aunt in law in Alsace says she spent the night in a US serviceman&#039;s tent and the next morning saw half the girls in the village emerge from the others.  In The Warriors, J. Glenn Gray says it is a primal drive in wartime to regenerate the species.  James Jones books good on this too, as were the stories of my grandmother who worked in a factory making bomb casings.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True that.  But it works both ways.  Relatives who were in wartime situations, men and women, say that everyone had a free pass for as much sex as possible and many things like this were expected, forgiven, and often reciprocated. My aunt in law in Alsace says she spent the night in a US serviceman&#8217;s tent and the next morning saw half the girls in the village emerge from the others.  In The Warriors, J. Glenn Gray says it is a primal drive in wartime to regenerate the species.  James Jones books good on this too, as were the stories of my grandmother who worked in a factory making bomb casings.</p>
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		<title>By: biff</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/10/05/the-kissing-sailor-photograph-an-iconic-image-of-war-not-of-romance/comment-page-1/#comment-561994</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[biff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 17:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=51531#comment-561994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Considering the photograph in isolation robs it of the richer context, which involved a spread of V-J pictures in the Aug 27, 1945 issue of _Life_ (it&#039;s available for viewing on Google books).  In it, one can find the original caption for the Times Square photo, which says that the nurse &quot;clutches her purse and skirt as an uninhibited sailor plants his lips squarely on hers&quot; (p. 27).

On the prior page, however, one sees another impromptu coupling in Miami, in which &quot;a longing, determined sailor grabs a willing light-o’-love and hoists her into position for a prolonged, determined kiss.&quot; The caption says &quot;willing,&quot; but as she has been swept off her feet and we can’t see her expression, it’s hard to say.

Above the Miami image, in contrast, are photos from celebrations in Washington and Kansas City, where the embraces look to be more consensual. The latter caption, in fact, says that the GI in question is &quot;just passing through Kansas City, [and] gets well bussed.&quot; That picture is open to interpretation, but one could easily conclude from their positioning and body language that the implication in the caption is on target: she is asserting herself, rather than the other way around.

After all these years, the Times Square kiss has become separated from its sibling images.  The other photographs in the montage might not change feelings about the famous shot, but they do offer a wider perspective for assessing it.  I&#039;d be curious to see if viewing them all together makes any difference for others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering the photograph in isolation robs it of the richer context, which involved a spread of V-J pictures in the Aug 27, 1945 issue of _Life_ (it&#8217;s available for viewing on Google books).  In it, one can find the original caption for the Times Square photo, which says that the nurse &#8220;clutches her purse and skirt as an uninhibited sailor plants his lips squarely on hers&#8221; (p. 27).</p>
<p>On the prior page, however, one sees another impromptu coupling in Miami, in which &#8220;a longing, determined sailor grabs a willing light-o’-love and hoists her into position for a prolonged, determined kiss.&#8221; The caption says &#8220;willing,&#8221; but as she has been swept off her feet and we can’t see her expression, it’s hard to say.</p>
<p>Above the Miami image, in contrast, are photos from celebrations in Washington and Kansas City, where the embraces look to be more consensual. The latter caption, in fact, says that the GI in question is &#8220;just passing through Kansas City, [and] gets well bussed.&#8221; That picture is open to interpretation, but one could easily conclude from their positioning and body language that the implication in the caption is on target: she is asserting herself, rather than the other way around.</p>
<p>After all these years, the Times Square kiss has become separated from its sibling images.  The other photographs in the montage might not change feelings about the famous shot, but they do offer a wider perspective for assessing it.  I&#8217;d be curious to see if viewing them all together makes any difference for others.</p>
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