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	<title>Comments on: How Insular are Academic Departments?</title>
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		<title>By: VinInTheChi</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-535699</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VinInTheChi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-535699</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No engineering or computer science fields are shown to connect with math.  Queen of the Sciences stripped of many of her loyal subjects and in a network topology map, this is heresy!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No engineering or computer science fields are shown to connect with math.  Queen of the Sciences stripped of many of her loyal subjects and in a network topology map, this is heresy!!!</p>
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		<title>By: miaz</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-535235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[miaz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 16:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-535235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[right?  It&#039;s a little weird that &quot;plant cell&quot; (whatever that is?) is included but psychology isn&#039;t! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>right?  It&#8217;s a little weird that &#8220;plant cell&#8221; (whatever that is?) is included but psychology isn&#8217;t! </p>
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		<title>By: Gregório Tkotz</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534944</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gregório Tkotz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 23:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t realy understand the meaning of the size of the circles, but this isn&#039;t what moust annoyed me. In my University, Anthropology, Political Science and Sociology are closely linked. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t realy understand the meaning of the size of the circles, but this isn&#8217;t what moust annoyed me. In my University, Anthropology, Political Science and Sociology are closely linked. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534932</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 20:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[this graph needs a legend to be complete]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this graph needs a legend to be complete</p>
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		<title>By: Estella</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534774</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Estella]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 20:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And historians never ever cite classicists or vice versa? I find that implausible, but then again, I&#039;m writing my thesis on classical references during the French Revolution, so perhaps I&#039;m some kind of magical exception.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And historians never ever cite classicists or vice versa? I find that implausible, but then again, I&#8217;m writing my thesis on classical references during the French Revolution, so perhaps I&#8217;m some kind of magical exception.</p>
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		<title>By: shayn</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534765</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shayn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[These things are not always two-way streets either. Certain fields carry more institutional weight than others.  As it happens, folklorists cite works from other fields pretty often (anthropology, ethnomusicology, literature, linguistics, and performance studies are all fairly common in my experience), but people in other fields almost never cite works from folklore.  If you&#039;re in a less-common or less-well-regarded field, you can cite from fields that are considered more legit than yours, because that will lend credence to your work, but for obvious reasons it doesn&#039;t work the other way around.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These things are not always two-way streets either. Certain fields carry more institutional weight than others.  As it happens, folklorists cite works from other fields pretty often (anthropology, ethnomusicology, literature, linguistics, and performance studies are all fairly common in my experience), but people in other fields almost never cite works from folklore.  If you&#8217;re in a less-common or less-well-regarded field, you can cite from fields that are considered more legit than yours, because that will lend credence to your work, but for obvious reasons it doesn&#8217;t work the other way around.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534764</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 15:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534764</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Depends on whether you&#039;re using existing software or if you&#039;re developing new methods.  If part of a research paper involves deriving a bayesian description of a novel system in order to construct a new Bayesian inference tools, then you&#039;ll be citing the statistical literature.

But if I&#039;m just using a Bayesian criterion to infer phylogeny, for example, I&#039;m just going to cite Huelsenbeck and Rannala.  I&#039;m not going to cite deep into the statistical literature.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends on whether you&#8217;re using existing software or if you&#8217;re developing new methods.  If part of a research paper involves deriving a bayesian description of a novel system in order to construct a new Bayesian inference tools, then you&#8217;ll be citing the statistical literature.</p>
<p>But if I&#8217;m just using a Bayesian criterion to infer phylogeny, for example, I&#8217;m just going to cite Huelsenbeck and Rannala.  I&#8217;m not going to cite deep into the statistical literature.</p>
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		<title>By: Yrro Simyarin</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534763</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yrro Simyarin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534763</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, and I guess whether something like Bayesian analysis still requires a cite at all or not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, and I guess whether something like Bayesian analysis still requires a cite at all or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534759</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, so I actually read &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0008694&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the original paper&lt;/a&gt; the Chronicle article is drawing from and it&#039;s not &quot;bullshit.&quot;  What it&#039;s tracing is levels of citation between fields.  Someone with a classics background may be familiar with classical philosophy, but the chances that they&#039;re going to cite contemporary work in the Journal of Philosophy is rather unlikely.  

In other words, it doesn&#039;t matter how multifaceted any given academic is.  What matters is the development of stable citation communities.

Additionally, since this is an eigenfactor analysis, the &lt;i&gt;volume&lt;/i&gt; of cross-discipline work is important.  For example, there&#039;s a huge overlap between biology and statistics.  This isn&#039;t because biologists are necessarily more interdisciplinary than classicists, but rather because there are significant fields of biology (phylogenetics, genomics, bioinformatics, etc) that are deeply statistical in nature and frequently involve development of new statistical inference methods.

A quick search of &quot;phylogenetics&quot; on Google Scholar parameterized to search only for this year yields ~20,000 papers.  A search of &quot;genomics&quot; for this year yields ~25,000 papers.  A search of bioinformatics yields ~27,000 papers.  These sorts of cross-discipline studies are extremely highly cited (upwards of thousands of citations per year in some cases).  Some of those connections on that figure probably represent hundreds of thousands of papers a year representing tends of millions of citation records, at the very least.  Ancient Philosophy studies simply doesn&#039;t produce that sort of publication volume and is not central to either philosophical or classical studies in the same way, so it&#039;s not going to show the fine-level detail you&#039;re talking about, which represents only a handful of academics.  There&#039;s nothing wrong with the analysis and there&#039;s nothing wrong with Ancient Philosophy.  Don&#039;t be so quick to judge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, so I actually read <a href="http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0008694" rel="nofollow">the original paper</a> the Chronicle article is drawing from and it&#8217;s not &#8220;bullshit.&#8221;  What it&#8217;s tracing is levels of citation between fields.  Someone with a classics background may be familiar with classical philosophy, but the chances that they&#8217;re going to cite contemporary work in the Journal of Philosophy is rather unlikely.  </p>
<p>In other words, it doesn&#8217;t matter how multifaceted any given academic is.  What matters is the development of stable citation communities.</p>
<p>Additionally, since this is an eigenfactor analysis, the <i>volume</i> of cross-discipline work is important.  For example, there&#8217;s a huge overlap between biology and statistics.  This isn&#8217;t because biologists are necessarily more interdisciplinary than classicists, but rather because there are significant fields of biology (phylogenetics, genomics, bioinformatics, etc) that are deeply statistical in nature and frequently involve development of new statistical inference methods.</p>
<p>A quick search of &#8220;phylogenetics&#8221; on Google Scholar parameterized to search only for this year yields ~20,000 papers.  A search of &#8220;genomics&#8221; for this year yields ~25,000 papers.  A search of bioinformatics yields ~27,000 papers.  These sorts of cross-discipline studies are extremely highly cited (upwards of thousands of citations per year in some cases).  Some of those connections on that figure probably represent hundreds of thousands of papers a year representing tends of millions of citation records, at the very least.  Ancient Philosophy studies simply doesn&#8217;t produce that sort of publication volume and is not central to either philosophical or classical studies in the same way, so it&#8217;s not going to show the fine-level detail you&#8217;re talking about, which represents only a handful of academics.  There&#8217;s nothing wrong with the analysis and there&#8217;s nothing wrong with Ancient Philosophy.  Don&#8217;t be so quick to judge.</p>
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		<title>By: Tlock</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534750</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tlock]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is garbage.  My area of research is ancient Greek philosophy, and I&#039;d say half of the people with tt jobs an anc. phil. in R1 universities have joint Ph.D.s in classics and philosophy (and almost EVERY philosophy department in the country has someone appointed with at least an AOC in ancient philosophy).  Admittedly, there are some philosophy departments that are more connected to mathematics than say sociology or law, but this strikes me as someone&#039;s rather naval-gazing myopic view of the disciplines.  Fail CHE.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is garbage.  My area of research is ancient Greek philosophy, and I&#8217;d say half of the people with tt jobs an anc. phil. in R1 universities have joint Ph.D.s in classics and philosophy (and almost EVERY philosophy department in the country has someone appointed with at least an AOC in ancient philosophy).  Admittedly, there are some philosophy departments that are more connected to mathematics than say sociology or law, but this strikes me as someone&#8217;s rather naval-gazing myopic view of the disciplines.  Fail CHE.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534748</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 00:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534748</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Right but how often are you really going to cite a pure statistics paper to justify a statistical analysis, rather than cite a field-specific paper that already used such an analysis?

Not very often, that&#039;s how often.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right but how often are you really going to cite a pure statistics paper to justify a statistical analysis, rather than cite a field-specific paper that already used such an analysis?</p>
<p>Not very often, that&#8217;s how often.</p>
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		<title>By: Delia</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534745</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Delia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 00:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, this is just too weird.  My core anthro class did the exact same thing last semester, surveying all the department chairs about the number of research-related collaborations they had with other disciplines, as well as a number of questions relating to the how different disciplines might perceive interdisciplinary work.

And yeah, Classics really was just that isolated.  Art, too.

As for the real &quot;dead-end&quot; outliers like Biblical Studies or Folklore... well, these are probably the result of simply being hard-to-find or nonexistent in many universities.  Correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but you just don&#039;t see all that many people walking around with majors in Biblical Studies or Folklore.  Or even universities offering that list them as departments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, this is just too weird.  My core anthro class did the exact same thing last semester, surveying all the department chairs about the number of research-related collaborations they had with other disciplines, as well as a number of questions relating to the how different disciplines might perceive interdisciplinary work.</p>
<p>And yeah, Classics really was just that isolated.  Art, too.</p>
<p>As for the real &#8220;dead-end&#8221; outliers like Biblical Studies or Folklore&#8230; well, these are probably the result of simply being hard-to-find or nonexistent in many universities.  Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but you just don&#8217;t see all that many people walking around with majors in Biblical Studies or Folklore.  Or even universities offering that list them as departments.</p>
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		<title>By: msvyvyan</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534743</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[msvyvyan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2011 23:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534743</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This seems a bit odd - what on earth is the &#039;plant cell&#039; on the lower right? And where are chemistry, physics - well, all of the sciences except &#039;Biology&#039; and mathematics? Again, what do the size of the circles mean - size of discipline? I&#039;ll assume the arrows indicate the relative degree of information sharing. 
This is a genuinely useless infographic, and one for which I&#039;d like to see the sources and methodology, as I regard it as deeply suspect.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This seems a bit odd &#8211; what on earth is the &#8216;plant cell&#8217; on the lower right? And where are chemistry, physics &#8211; well, all of the sciences except &#8216;Biology&#8217; and mathematics? Again, what do the size of the circles mean &#8211; size of discipline? I&#8217;ll assume the arrows indicate the relative degree of information sharing.<br />
This is a genuinely useless infographic, and one for which I&#8217;d like to see the sources and methodology, as I regard it as deeply suspect.</p>
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		<title>By: Yrro Simyarin</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534742</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yrro Simyarin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2011 23:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534742</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m actually somewhat concerned that statistics isn&#039;t linked in almost every single paper. By everyone. Because almost every study I&#039;ve read in any form uses *some* level of statistics, and honestly it&#039;s the part they&#039;re most likely to flub.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m actually somewhat concerned that statistics isn&#8217;t linked in almost every single paper. By everyone. Because almost every study I&#8217;ve read in any form uses *some* level of statistics, and honestly it&#8217;s the part they&#8217;re most likely to flub.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/09/25/how-insular-are-academic-departments/comment-page-1/#comment-534736</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2011 20:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=39506#comment-534736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a couple of initial thoughts.  

The data is from JSTOR.  I know that in my field many of the more interesting, experimental, and interdisciplinary-inclined journals are not represented in the JSTOR database.  It tends to have the old venerable journals, the heavyweights, which (for good or ill) tend to be conservative and move slowly.  And the majority of scholars in a given field are not publishing in them.

Some fields, like classics (and I imagine many others, like medieval studies), are in and of themselves interdisciplinary, i.e., scholars studying literature, history, language, art, archaeology, political thought, philosophy, etc... fall within one dept and share the similar/same graduate training.  Something to consider in analysis.  (For example, just try to explain the lack of a link between philosophy and classics that doesn&#039;t exist in reality)

Also, in the humanities the book still reigns supreme in many disciplines.  So measuring with articles is not the whole picture.  I can think of several instances in which more interdisciplinary work appears in larger works, where there is more room to engage with other disciplines.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a couple of initial thoughts.  </p>
<p>The data is from JSTOR.  I know that in my field many of the more interesting, experimental, and interdisciplinary-inclined journals are not represented in the JSTOR database.  It tends to have the old venerable journals, the heavyweights, which (for good or ill) tend to be conservative and move slowly.  And the majority of scholars in a given field are not publishing in them.</p>
<p>Some fields, like classics (and I imagine many others, like medieval studies), are in and of themselves interdisciplinary, i.e., scholars studying literature, history, language, art, archaeology, political thought, philosophy, etc&#8230; fall within one dept and share the similar/same graduate training.  Something to consider in analysis.  (For example, just try to explain the lack of a link between philosophy and classics that doesn&#8217;t exist in reality)</p>
<p>Also, in the humanities the book still reigns supreme in many disciplines.  So measuring with articles is not the whole picture.  I can think of several instances in which more interdisciplinary work appears in larger works, where there is more room to engage with other disciplines.</p>
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