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	<title>Comments on: Rethinking the Riots; How Do We Really See Class? (UPDATE)</title>
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	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
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		<title>By: Rethinking the Riots: How do we really see class? &#124; Leaders Vision</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-524579</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rethinking the Riots: How do we really see class? &#124; Leaders Vision]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-524579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] To read more visit: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] To read more visit: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/ [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Treefinger</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532417</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Treefinger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532417</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;If you think that class in the UK is &quot;nuanced&quot; than you have been away 
for far too long. Or not been around enough posh folks or chavs.&quot;

Or maybe, like me, you&#039;re someone who can be seen as a posh person or a chav depending on where you are, someone who has experienced and witnessed social mobility going both ways... someone who has a more nuanced experience of class that you claim does not exist.

I actually take most of your point but saying that there is NO nuance to British social class is ludicrous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you think that class in the UK is &#8220;nuanced&#8221; than you have been away<br />
for far too long. Or not been around enough posh folks or chavs.&#8221;</p>
<p>Or maybe, like me, you&#8217;re someone who can be seen as a posh person or a chav depending on where you are, someone who has experienced and witnessed social mobility going both ways&#8230; someone who has a more nuanced experience of class that you claim does not exist.</p>
<p>I actually take most of your point but saying that there is NO nuance to British social class is ludicrous.</p>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532343</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 14:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here are the pictures of those looters who have not been identified yet.  

http://www.met.police.uk/disordersuspects/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are the pictures of those looters who have not been identified yet.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.met.police.uk/disordersuspects/" rel="nofollow">http://www.met.police.uk/disordersuspects/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gilbert Pinfold</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532271</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gilbert Pinfold]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 23:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sure.  I am not sanguine, or even &#039;progressive&#039;, about the project of trying to re-engineer &#039;structural socioeconomic inequality&#039;, whereas I think the poster of the comment probably is.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure.  I am not sanguine, or even &#8216;progressive&#8217;, about the project of trying to re-engineer &#8216;structural socioeconomic inequality&#8217;, whereas I think the poster of the comment probably is.</p>
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		<title>By: Ljusalv</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532262</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ljusalv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A very different take on the riots by sociologist Zygmunt Bauman 
http://www.social-europe.eu/2011/08/the-london-riots-on-consumerism-coming-home-to-roost/

&quot;These are not hunger or bread riots. These are riots of defective and disqualified consumers&quot; 

Interesting!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very different take on the riots by sociologist Zygmunt Bauman <br />
<a href="http://www.social-europe.eu/2011/08/the-london-riots-on-consumerism-coming-home-to-roost/" rel="nofollow">http://www.social-europe.eu/2011/08/the-london-riots-on-consumerism-coming-home-to-roost/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;These are not hunger or bread riots. These are riots of defective and disqualified consumers&#8221; </p>
<p>Interesting!</p>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532256</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 20:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532256</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Kobe: I already said in my earlier comment (the one with the pictures) that while in the US a hoodie is more &#039;classless&#039;, it definitely is not in the UK. I&#039;ve lived in the US, so yup, I know the difference. DOn&#039;t make the mistake of being US-centric (&quot;everywhere else will be like the US&quot;). And there is no chance that ALL people from a posh background would just randomly wear a hoodie- as a group. Why do people wear lower class-based clothes? It gives them an identity, sense of belonging.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kobe: I already said in my earlier comment (the one with the pictures) that while in the US a hoodie is more &#8216;classless&#8217;, it definitely is not in the UK. I&#8217;ve lived in the US, so yup, I know the difference. DOn&#8217;t make the mistake of being US-centric (&#8220;everywhere else will be like the US&#8221;). And there is no chance that ALL people from a posh background would just randomly wear a hoodie- as a group. Why do people wear lower class-based clothes? It gives them an identity, sense of belonging.  </p>
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		<title>By: Kobe</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532251</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kobe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 19:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps I misunderstand your post, but based on what I think you&#039;re saying (which to me is that the hoodies are fine indicator of class and we shouldn&#039;t need to think further about it), I would say this:

So then you own a hoodie and could, feasibly, take part in the riot in the &quot;disguise&quot; of a lower-class person? (Why own a hoodie at all if it is such a signifier of lower class status?) If you could do that, why can&#039;t others? Sometimes people like to feel a part of something or sympathize with a cause that may not directly be there own, or maybe just want to cause some destruction. But if all you had to do was go to your closet and grab your hoodie (or stop at a store and buy one), how is that a good indicator of who is participating in these riots?

Maybe I just don&#039;t understand. I assume you&#039;re not from the US because I am, and hoodies are not a big deal here (at least where I live). I am a middle-class, professional woman and I own about 20 (at least) hoodies, as do many of my friends similarly positioned on the socioeconomic spectrum.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I misunderstand your post, but based on what I think you&#8217;re saying (which to me is that the hoodies are fine indicator of class and we shouldn&#8217;t need to think further about it), I would say this:</p>
<p>So then you own a hoodie and could, feasibly, take part in the riot in the &#8220;disguise&#8221; of a lower-class person? (Why own a hoodie at all if it is such a signifier of lower class status?) If you could do that, why can&#8217;t others? Sometimes people like to feel a part of something or sympathize with a cause that may not directly be there own, or maybe just want to cause some destruction. But if all you had to do was go to your closet and grab your hoodie (or stop at a store and buy one), how is that a good indicator of who is participating in these riots?</p>
<p>Maybe I just don&#8217;t understand. I assume you&#8217;re not from the US because I am, and hoodies are not a big deal here (at least where I live). I am a middle-class, professional woman and I own about 20 (at least) hoodies, as do many of my friends similarly positioned on the socioeconomic spectrum.</p>
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		<title>By: Shale</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532247</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532247</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I
 don&#039;t think the rioting needs to be cast as irrational either. I think 
it&#039;s more likely that these individuals do not feel all that attached to
 the local businesses they are burning and looting. I can&#039;t imagine that
 the communities are homogeneous. It is quite possible that they do not 
identify with the local business class---that is, they do not think of 
them as being in the same community as themselves.

What&#039;s more, if they are far enough removed from British prospects for 
wealth and privilege, they might not even consider the potential loss 
that their victims face. It&#039;s hard to imagine what it might feel like to
 loose one&#039;s business, if you haven&#039;t a hope in hell of ever even 
aspiring to having one yourself.

Rioting is wrong, but it looks to me like British society needs to take 
responsibility for organizing itself in such a way that allows for these
 kinds of conflicts in the first place. A few more avenues for social 
mobility probably could have prevented all of this.

 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I<br />
 don&#8217;t think the rioting needs to be cast as irrational either. I think<br />
it&#8217;s more likely that these individuals do not feel all that attached to<br />
 the local businesses they are burning and looting. I can&#8217;t imagine that<br />
 the communities are homogeneous. It is quite possible that they do not<br />
identify with the local business class&#8212;that is, they do not think of<br />
them as being in the same community as themselves.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s more, if they are far enough removed from British prospects for<br />
wealth and privilege, they might not even consider the potential loss<br />
that their victims face. It&#8217;s hard to imagine what it might feel like to<br />
 loose one&#8217;s business, if you haven&#8217;t a hope in hell of ever even<br />
aspiring to having one yourself.</p>
<p>Rioting is wrong, but it looks to me like British society needs to take<br />
responsibility for organizing itself in such a way that allows for these<br />
 kinds of conflicts in the first place. A few more avenues for social<br />
mobility probably could have prevented all of this.</p>
<p> </p>
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		<title>By: Shale</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532245</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Shale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes! Although your tone is a little harsh (I think the author does have business writing sociology. Especially if they do so in good faith.).

Fortunately this is just a blog, but I couldn&#039;t help but thinking as I read through the post, &quot;This is the kind of blind speculation that murders social science---and the kinds of progressive projects that can stem from it.&quot; If this argument were published in a leading journal, I would have probably screamed. There is a big difference between informed judgment and logical speculation. Equating the two only serves the status quo.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes! Although your tone is a little harsh (I think the author does have business writing sociology. Especially if they do so in good faith.).</p>
<p>Fortunately this is just a blog, but I couldn&#8217;t help but thinking as I read through the post, &#8220;This is the kind of blind speculation that murders social science&#8212;and the kinds of progressive projects that can stem from it.&#8221; If this argument were published in a leading journal, I would have probably screamed. There is a big difference between informed judgment and logical speculation. Equating the two only serves the status quo.</p>
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		<title>By: [links] Link salad leaves home once more &#124; jlake.com</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-524325</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[[links] Link salad leaves home once more &#124; jlake.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-524325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Rethinking The Riots; How Do We Really See Class? [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Rethinking The Riots; How Do We Really See Class? [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From the great book &quot;Research in the Sociology of Sport vol. 4: Tribal play- subcultural journeys through sport&quot;:
Another term for chav (British lower class) is &quot;Hoodies&quot;. &quot;[A] Common signifier of chav culture includes hooded leisure wear. [...] young working class men (&#039;Hoodies&#039;) whose identity is often (allegedly deliberately) concealed by their appropriation of hooded garments.&quot; 

You should check it out. And yup, I own a hoodie as well. One single hoodie in all my wardrobe. Chances that me and all my friends (at university or after work) would ALL wear hoodies at the same time are NIL. Why? They provide an identity to people of the working class, not to other classes. We might all year (just an example) Longchamp bags at the same time. Or chucks. Because they also provide an identity. 

Seriously, these things MEAN something. It&#039;s not random in any way.
 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the great book &#8220;Research in the Sociology of Sport vol. 4: Tribal play- subcultural journeys through sport&#8221;:<br />
Another term for chav (British lower class) is &#8220;Hoodies&#8221;. &#8220;[A] Common signifier of chav culture includes hooded leisure wear. [&#8230;] young working class men (&#8216;Hoodies&#8217;) whose identity is often (allegedly deliberately) concealed by their appropriation of hooded garments.&#8221; </p>
<p>You should check it out. And yup, I own a hoodie as well. One single hoodie in all my wardrobe. Chances that me and all my friends (at university or after work) would ALL wear hoodies at the same time are NIL. Why? They provide an identity to people of the working class, not to other classes. We might all year (just an example) Longchamp bags at the same time. Or chucks. Because they also provide an identity. </p>
<p>Seriously, these things MEAN something. It&#8217;s not random in any way.</p>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532224</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Care to share?  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Care to share?  </p>
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		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s hysterical. He&#039;s still a posh mannequin. I mixed him up with a guy from Sky News.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s hysterical. He&#8217;s still a posh mannequin. I mixed him up with a guy from Sky News.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Abigail</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abigail]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent post AlgebraAB.  I would also like to point out that the idea that rioters lived in a different post code (I assume they mean the first half) than where there was rioting doesn&#039;t even mean they necessarily used public transport, its pretty easy to just walk from one postcode to another.  Since many people were out rioting for hours, its fairly logical that they would have walked a way away from home, and the ones who lived further away are perhaps the ones more likely to get arrested due to being less familiar with the area.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post AlgebraAB.  I would also like to point out that the idea that rioters lived in a different post code (I assume they mean the first half) than where there was rioting doesn&#8217;t even mean they necessarily used public transport, its pretty easy to just walk from one postcode to another.  Since many people were out rioting for hours, its fairly logical that they would have walked a way away from home, and the ones who lived further away are perhaps the ones more likely to get arrested due to being less familiar with the area.</p>
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		<title>By: lisa carver</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/08/16/rethinking-the-riots-how-do-we-really-see-class/comment-page-1/#comment-532214</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lisa carver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 05:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=38706#comment-532214</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Guardian newspaper this morning had a Google map of the data about riot locations and the home addresses of 
people arrested in the riots.  Those data were then put against 
socioeconomic information regarding particular neighborhoods.
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/uk_riots_poverty_put_on_a_google_map.php ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Guardian newspaper this morning had a Google map of the data about riot locations and the home addresses of<br />
people arrested in the riots.  Those data were then put against<br />
socioeconomic information regarding particular neighborhoods.<br />
<a href="http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/uk_riots_poverty_put_on_a_google_map.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/uk_riots_poverty_put_on_a_google_map.php</a> </p>
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