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	<title>Comments on: Fighting Unemployment By Boosting Wages</title>
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		<title>By: US Debt &#8211; The Shock Therapy Begins &#171; Dead Wild Roses</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-523811</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[US Debt &#8211; The Shock Therapy Begins &#171; Dead Wild Roses]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 18:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-523811</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] report btw, I would highly recommend you read the whole thing, or at least the summary at Sociological Images for the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] report btw, I would highly recommend you read the whole thing, or at least the summary at Sociological Images for the [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530645</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2011 05:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530645</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.forbes.com/2006/04/17/06ceo_ceo-compensation_land.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2006 Forbes article&lt;/a&gt;, second hit on Google for &quot;wages of fortune 500 executives&quot;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The chief executives of America&#039;s 500 
biggest companies ... received an aggregate 6% pay raise last year, 
which pales in comparison to their 54% pay raise in 2004. &lt;/blockquote&gt;The 2004-2006 year-over-year executive pay tracks pretty well with the private-sector decade-over-decade wages, even though they are two completely different standards of comparison.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.forbes.com/2006/04/17/06ceo_ceo-compensation_land.html" rel="nofollow">2006 Forbes article</a>, second hit on Google for &#8220;wages of fortune 500 executives&#8221;:</p>
<blockquote><p>The chief executives of America&#8217;s 500<br />
biggest companies &#8230; received an aggregate 6% pay raise last year,<br />
which pales in comparison to their 54% pay raise in 2004. </p></blockquote>
<p>The 2004-2006 year-over-year executive pay tracks pretty well with the private-sector decade-over-decade wages, even though they are two completely different standards of comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530644</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2011 05:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Suppose we put money in the hands of employers. They will use at least part of it to hire more workers to make more profit. The additional workers will spend money on the additional goods produced.

The theory, more or less, requires the money supply to grow at some point; the trick is to do this at a rate that accommodates actual growth, and not so fast as to make lending unprofitable. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppose we put money in the hands of employers. They will use at least part of it to hire more workers to make more profit. The additional workers will spend money on the additional goods produced.</p>
<p>The theory, more or less, requires the money supply to grow at some point; the trick is to do this at a rate that accommodates actual growth, and not so fast as to make lending unprofitable. </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530643</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2011 04:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Over the past decade, real private-sector wage growth has scraped bottom
 at 4%, just below the 5% increase from 1929 to 1939, government data 
show....
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
In other words, we are experiencing a steady and long term decline in total real wages&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Corporate profits redistributed to stockholders participate in the economy exactly as much as corporate income paid to employees does. The economy angle is a red herring.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><blockquote>Over the past decade, real private-sector wage growth has scraped bottom<br />
 at 4%, just below the 5% increase from 1929 to 1939, government data<br />
show&#8230;.
</p></blockquote>
<p>In other words, we are experiencing a steady and long term decline in total real wages</p></blockquote>
<p>Corporate profits redistributed to stockholders participate in the economy exactly as much as corporate income paid to employees does. The economy angle is a red herring.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2011 03:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As an empirical point, the minimum wage has increased a couple times since 2007.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html
You may want to say this is unrelated to the concurrent rise in unemployment, but I think a significant number of economists will argue against that idea.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an empirical point, the minimum wage has increased a couple times since 2007.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html</a><br />
You may want to say this is unrelated to the concurrent rise in unemployment, but I think a significant number of economists will argue against that idea.<br />
<a href="http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000" rel="nofollow">http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000</a></p>
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		<title>By: Yrro Simyarin</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530636</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yrro Simyarin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2011 00:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d imagine that economists would be in the best position to say whether or not that theory works.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d imagine that economists would be in the best position to say whether or not that theory works.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530635</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2011 00:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530635</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If we put money in the hands of workers, they will spend at least part of it.  The money they spend will enter the economy and allow employers to make better profits and hire more workers.  Generally, that is how it is supposed to work.  If it works or not- who knows?  But that is the theory.  ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we put money in the hands of workers, they will spend at least part of it.  The money they spend will enter the economy and allow employers to make better profits and hire more workers.  Generally, that is how it is supposed to work.  If it works or not- who knows?  But that is the theory.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: AlgebraAB</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530634</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AlgebraAB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jul 2011 00:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One other point (which I&#039;ve made before, but bears repeating) ... comparing the current &quot;Great Recession&quot; to the Great Depression is comparing apples to oranges. 

Going into the Great Depression, the U.S. was a net EXPORTER and a net CREDITOR. 

Today, the U.S. is a net IMPORTER and a net DEBTOR.

Coming out of the Great Depression, the U.S. was one of the few remaining industrial powers. Western Europe and Japan were (temporarily) ruined industrially. The Soviet bloc closed itself off to Western industry. The rest of the world was mostly pre-industrial and preoccupied by anti-colonial struggle.

That isn&#039;t the case coming out of the &quot;Great Recession&quot; ... We&#039;ve never faced as many industrial competitors as we do today. 

During the Depression-era, the majority of the populace was engaged in jobs that resulted in physical output: agriculture, industry, commerce.

Today, agriculture, industry and commerce are outflanked by FIRE (finance, insurance, real estate), education, healthcare and other &quot;non-productive&quot; (in the physical output sense) sectors of the economy. In short, prosperity in the primary/secondary sectors of the economy is a prerequisite for prosperity in the tertiary sector ... yet, currently in the U.S., the primary and secondary sectors are shrinking while the tertiary sector is expanding.

During the Depression era, most banks were geared towards either (1) direct investment in tangible assets or (2) savings, loans and the typical consumer-oriented business of retail banking. 

Today, the biggest profits in finance come from arbitrage, investment in non-tangible assets (i.e. CDOs and other similar securities) and leveraged buy-outs.

During the Depression era, currency exchanges were fixed or based on precious metals.

Today we have QE1 and QE2.

As you wrap your head around these differences, I think it&#039;ll become clear why Keynesian stimulus was/is doomed to fail, regardless of the scale. It&#039;s an outdated model geared for an economy that is *radically* different than our own. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other point (which I&#8217;ve made before, but bears repeating) &#8230; comparing the current &#8220;Great Recession&#8221; to the Great Depression is comparing apples to oranges. </p>
<p>Going into the Great Depression, the U.S. was a net EXPORTER and a net CREDITOR. </p>
<p>Today, the U.S. is a net IMPORTER and a net DEBTOR.</p>
<p>Coming out of the Great Depression, the U.S. was one of the few remaining industrial powers. Western Europe and Japan were (temporarily) ruined industrially. The Soviet bloc closed itself off to Western industry. The rest of the world was mostly pre-industrial and preoccupied by anti-colonial struggle.</p>
<p>That isn&#8217;t the case coming out of the &#8220;Great Recession&#8221; &#8230; We&#8217;ve never faced as many industrial competitors as we do today. </p>
<p>During the Depression-era, the majority of the populace was engaged in jobs that resulted in physical output: agriculture, industry, commerce.</p>
<p>Today, agriculture, industry and commerce are outflanked by FIRE (finance, insurance, real estate), education, healthcare and other &#8220;non-productive&#8221; (in the physical output sense) sectors of the economy. In short, prosperity in the primary/secondary sectors of the economy is a prerequisite for prosperity in the tertiary sector &#8230; yet, currently in the U.S., the primary and secondary sectors are shrinking while the tertiary sector is expanding.</p>
<p>During the Depression era, most banks were geared towards either (1) direct investment in tangible assets or (2) savings, loans and the typical consumer-oriented business of retail banking. </p>
<p>Today, the biggest profits in finance come from arbitrage, investment in non-tangible assets (i.e. CDOs and other similar securities) and leveraged buy-outs.</p>
<p>During the Depression era, currency exchanges were fixed or based on precious metals.</p>
<p>Today we have QE1 and QE2.</p>
<p>As you wrap your head around these differences, I think it&#8217;ll become clear why Keynesian stimulus was/is doomed to fail, regardless of the scale. It&#8217;s an outdated model geared for an economy that is *radically* different than our own. </p>
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		<title>By: AlgebraAB</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530633</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AlgebraAB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 23:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;But did the survey also reveal strong 
support by economists for a higher minimum wage, new union-friendly 
labor laws, a single payer health plan, an increase in social security 
payments, an aggressive industrial policy? No.&quot;

These policies might put more money in the pockets of individuals who are *already working* but they would not necessarily alleviate the unemployment situation. In fact, many economists would suggest that a higher minimum wage and an expansion of unions would likely exacerbate unemployment. I know that the small firm I work for (which is not generating a profit currently) would likely have to replace some full-time personnel with part-time personnel were the minimum wage to go up significantly. I&#039;d imagine there are a lot of businesses in the same boat.

The only policy suggestion of yours that I could see really alleviating unemployment would be &quot;an aggressive industrial policy.&quot; My question, however, is what does an &quot;aggressive industrial policy&quot; mean to you? You throw it out there but don&#039;t elaborate at all. The reason I ask is, of course, because the countries that have been the most successful with industrial growth over the past decade or so have all been countries with low labor costs (low wages), which you&#039;re clearly against. 

I&#039;m actually curious what an American &quot;Marxist&quot; economist has to say about the disjunction between labor costs in the US/Europe/Japan and labor costs in East Asia and Latin America. This is a major topic of discussion in diplomatic meetings as of the past 2 years. I put &quot;Marxist&quot; in quotes because most Third World Marxists that I know would argue that the U.S. economy is such a basket-case in part due to the fact that labor costs are so high relative to the country&#039;s physical output. That, if it weren&#039;t for the dollar&#039;s status as reserve currency (which shields it from a great deal of inflation - witness QE1 and QE2, which would&#039;ve ruined any other country; instead, our creditors are forced to buy more dollars to protect their existing holdings) and for the hegemony of Wall Street internationally, then American wages would be even lower. That&#039;s the anti-imperialist argument. It&#039;s also a far more powerful explanation for the incongruity between corporate earnings and wages. You&#039;re assuming all U.S. corporate profits are generated domestically, which would support the idea that government benefits are bolstering them. That isn&#039;t the case though. Especially when we&#039;re talking about finance - much (if not most) of the profit generation is happening through foreign investment.


 ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But did the survey also reveal strong<br />
support by economists for a higher minimum wage, new union-friendly<br />
labor laws, a single payer health plan, an increase in social security<br />
payments, an aggressive industrial policy? No.&#8221;</p>
<p>These policies might put more money in the pockets of individuals who are *already working* but they would not necessarily alleviate the unemployment situation. In fact, many economists would suggest that a higher minimum wage and an expansion of unions would likely exacerbate unemployment. I know that the small firm I work for (which is not generating a profit currently) would likely have to replace some full-time personnel with part-time personnel were the minimum wage to go up significantly. I&#8217;d imagine there are a lot of businesses in the same boat.</p>
<p>The only policy suggestion of yours that I could see really alleviating unemployment would be &#8220;an aggressive industrial policy.&#8221; My question, however, is what does an &#8220;aggressive industrial policy&#8221; mean to you? You throw it out there but don&#8217;t elaborate at all. The reason I ask is, of course, because the countries that have been the most successful with industrial growth over the past decade or so have all been countries with low labor costs (low wages), which you&#8217;re clearly against. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m actually curious what an American &#8220;Marxist&#8221; economist has to say about the disjunction between labor costs in the US/Europe/Japan and labor costs in East Asia and Latin America. This is a major topic of discussion in diplomatic meetings as of the past 2 years. I put &#8220;Marxist&#8221; in quotes because most Third World Marxists that I know would argue that the U.S. economy is such a basket-case in part due to the fact that labor costs are so high relative to the country&#8217;s physical output. That, if it weren&#8217;t for the dollar&#8217;s status as reserve currency (which shields it from a great deal of inflation &#8211; witness QE1 and QE2, which would&#8217;ve ruined any other country; instead, our creditors are forced to buy more dollars to protect their existing holdings) and for the hegemony of Wall Street internationally, then American wages would be even lower. That&#8217;s the anti-imperialist argument. It&#8217;s also a far more powerful explanation for the incongruity between corporate earnings and wages. You&#8217;re assuming all U.S. corporate profits are generated domestically, which would support the idea that government benefits are bolstering them. That isn&#8217;t the case though. Especially when we&#8217;re talking about finance &#8211; much (if not most) of the profit generation is happening through foreign investment.</p>
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		<title>By: Leslee Beldotti</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530632</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leslee Beldotti]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 23:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530632</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, I&#039;ll confess that I don&#039;t understand this article!  

The economists surveyed by the Wall Street Journal aren&#039;t in favor of further action either by the Fed or the Federal government because they somehow benefit from the decline in real wages?  

Huh?

(I&#039;m not trying to be sarcastic or facetious. I really don&#039;t understand.)
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I&#8217;ll confess that I don&#8217;t understand this article!  </p>
<p>The economists surveyed by the Wall Street Journal aren&#8217;t in favor of further action either by the Fed or the Federal government because they somehow benefit from the decline in real wages?  </p>
<p>Huh?</p>
<p>(I&#8217;m not trying to be sarcastic or facetious. I really don&#8217;t understand.)</p>
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		<title>By: Skalchemist</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530629</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Skalchemist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I have no doubt that the rich are getting richer while the rest of us tread water, the chart above seems to me to be comparing apples to oranges.  

It is comparing increases in non-personal things to personal things.  The fact that a particular corporation&#039;s profits has gone up is interesting, but not, in my opinion, comparable to the increase or lack thereof in a average wages of people.  It would be better to compare, say, the increase in the average wages of Fortune 500 executives during the same period.  I have no doubt the chart would look somewhat similar, but it would be a cleaner comparison.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I have no doubt that the rich are getting richer while the rest of us tread water, the chart above seems to me to be comparing apples to oranges.  </p>
<p>It is comparing increases in non-personal things to personal things.  The fact that a particular corporation&#8217;s profits has gone up is interesting, but not, in my opinion, comparable to the increase or lack thereof in a average wages of people.  It would be better to compare, say, the increase in the average wages of Fortune 500 executives during the same period.  I have no doubt the chart would look somewhat similar, but it would be a cleaner comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: Fighting Unemployment by Boosting Wages; Post-High School Pathways of Men of Color; And More &#171; Welcome to the Doctor&#039;s Office</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-523590</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fighting Unemployment by Boosting Wages; Post-High School Pathways of Men of Color; And More &#171; Welcome to the Doctor&#039;s Office]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-523590</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] FIGHTING UNEMPLOYMENT BY BOOSTING WAGES by Martin Hart-Landsberg, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] FIGHTING UNEMPLOYMENT BY BOOSTING WAGES by Martin Hart-Landsberg, [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MK</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/07/26/fighting-unemployment-by-boosting-wages/comment-page-1/#comment-530627</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://media.lclark.edu/content/hart-landsberg/2011/07/26/explaining-unemployment/#comment-530627</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love Sociological Images, but sometimes the onesidedness of posts shocks me. For example, why do the editors of SI allow glaring and unjust inequalities in who gets to voice opinions about economic matters? Twice in the last week a Marxist economist&#039;s opinions have been given center stage to SI&#039;s large readership. With no other voices heard about these important issues, it is not unlikely that many will be persuaded without having considered other possible theories. This hegemony of ideas on SI is not fitting and in the name of fairness posts like this should be counterbalanced by posts having other theoretical bases.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Sociological Images, but sometimes the onesidedness of posts shocks me. For example, why do the editors of SI allow glaring and unjust inequalities in who gets to voice opinions about economic matters? Twice in the last week a Marxist economist&#8217;s opinions have been given center stage to SI&#8217;s large readership. With no other voices heard about these important issues, it is not unlikely that many will be persuaded without having considered other possible theories. This hegemony of ideas on SI is not fitting and in the name of fairness posts like this should be counterbalanced by posts having other theoretical bases.</p>
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