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	<title>Comments on: Orthodox Jew-Inspired Fashion Show</title>
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	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
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		<title>By: I Fall Down a Research Rabbit Hole &#124; librarygrrrl.net</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-594819</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I Fall Down a Research Rabbit Hole &#124; librarygrrrl.net]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-594819</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Orthodox Jew-Inspired Fashion [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Orthodox Jew-Inspired Fashion [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: daphne</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-587886</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[daphne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-587886</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gaultier is not known as being anti-semitic. I think you may be referring to Galliano?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gaultier is not known as being anti-semitic. I think you may be referring to Galliano?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Abbott</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-562834</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Abbott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2012 18:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-562834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a nominal but basically non-practicing Reconstructionist Jew, I think you&#039;re assuming WAY more faith and rigidity than most American Jews (especially the Reform and Reconstructionist Jews who rarely see their religion as the primary source of their values) have.

Have you ever heard an American Jewish organization make any of the claims that right-wing Christian groups make constantly, that everyone in America has to live like they do because their book said so?  I haven&#039;t.  Have you met a Jew under 40 who is homophobic and ascribes his or her homophobia to religious pronouncement?  I haven&#039;t met a single one, although I do travel in mostly liberal circles, and had my Bar Mitzvah with a gay Rabbi.  In general, even the ultra-Orthodox Jews believe that they should live the way they feel called by God to live, not insist that strangers also live that way.  Missionary work has just never been a real part of the Jewish spiritual tradition... I think all that &quot;Chosen People&quot; bull discouraged Jews historically from seeking converts.

The thing I appreciate about Reconstructionism is it understands the Torah as a product of inspired but fallible humans, and encourages us to find the parts of scripture and Rabbinic philosophy that work for us and use them, rather than taking millenia-old books as a set of detailed and unchanging instructions directly from a higher power (and ditches the aforementioned Chosen People concept that comes off really obnoxious and more than a bit racist in the modern world).  Growing up as a religious minority, I never saw any reason to believe my religion was more correct than anyone else&#039;s, although I&#039;ve always had intellectual and moral problems with people whose faith requires them to impose it on others, those who believe their faith makes them inherently better than others, and anyone who interprets scripture literally.

When I went to college, I thought more about my own beliefs, and incorporated a good bit of Quaker thought into my spiritual expression, primarily the idea that every person has intrinsic value and should be respected for it.  In that way, I agree with your point about pulling valuable concepts from all traditions, although it&#039;s important to take them in ways that somewhat preserve their context and reasoning.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a nominal but basically non-practicing Reconstructionist Jew, I think you&#8217;re assuming WAY more faith and rigidity than most American Jews (especially the Reform and Reconstructionist Jews who rarely see their religion as the primary source of their values) have.</p>
<p>Have you ever heard an American Jewish organization make any of the claims that right-wing Christian groups make constantly, that everyone in America has to live like they do because their book said so?  I haven&#8217;t.  Have you met a Jew under 40 who is homophobic and ascribes his or her homophobia to religious pronouncement?  I haven&#8217;t met a single one, although I do travel in mostly liberal circles, and had my Bar Mitzvah with a gay Rabbi.  In general, even the ultra-Orthodox Jews believe that they should live the way they feel called by God to live, not insist that strangers also live that way.  Missionary work has just never been a real part of the Jewish spiritual tradition&#8230; I think all that &#8220;Chosen People&#8221; bull discouraged Jews historically from seeking converts.</p>
<p>The thing I appreciate about Reconstructionism is it understands the Torah as a product of inspired but fallible humans, and encourages us to find the parts of scripture and Rabbinic philosophy that work for us and use them, rather than taking millenia-old books as a set of detailed and unchanging instructions directly from a higher power (and ditches the aforementioned Chosen People concept that comes off really obnoxious and more than a bit racist in the modern world).  Growing up as a religious minority, I never saw any reason to believe my religion was more correct than anyone else&#8217;s, although I&#8217;ve always had intellectual and moral problems with people whose faith requires them to impose it on others, those who believe their faith makes them inherently better than others, and anyone who interprets scripture literally.</p>
<p>When I went to college, I thought more about my own beliefs, and incorporated a good bit of Quaker thought into my spiritual expression, primarily the idea that every person has intrinsic value and should be respected for it.  In that way, I agree with your point about pulling valuable concepts from all traditions, although it&#8217;s important to take them in ways that somewhat preserve their context and reasoning.</p>
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		<title>By: Cultural Appropriation and the Kotel &#171; Global Engagement Seminar&#8211;Jerusalem 2012</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-557163</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cultural Appropriation and the Kotel &#171; Global Engagement Seminar&#8211;Jerusalem 2012]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 19:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-557163</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] When it comes to cultures that frequently fall victim to cultural appropriation, Jewry isn&#8217;t exactly too high on that list. Jews aren&#8217;t exactly considered exotic &#8211; largely because it&#8217;s thought of as a &#8216;white culture&#8217; (nevermind that this erases so many Jews of color). Despite Jews only making up about 2% of the US population, many of them are very privileged individuals who definitely get a voice in society. Cultures that are higher up on the (imaginary, made up of my non-scientific guesstimates) CA list are often non-Western and Native American, ones that are not in the position of privilege in the US. Still, this is hardly to say that Jewish cultural appropriation never happens. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] When it comes to cultures that frequently fall victim to cultural appropriation, Jewry isn&#8217;t exactly too high on that list. Jews aren&#8217;t exactly considered exotic &#8211; largely because it&#8217;s thought of as a &#8216;white culture&#8217; (nevermind that this erases so many Jews of color). Despite Jews only making up about 2% of the US population, many of them are very privileged individuals who definitely get a voice in society. Cultures that are higher up on the (imaginary, made up of my non-scientific guesstimates) CA list are often non-Western and Native American, ones that are not in the position of privilege in the US. Still, this is hardly to say that Jewish cultural appropriation never happens. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: editrix</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-491540</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[editrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 07:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-491540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just pointing out (speaking as an Orthodox Jew) that current Orthodox Jewish men&#039;s clothing styles are appropriated from 18 century Polish noblemen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just pointing out (speaking as an Orthodox Jew) that current Orthodox Jewish men&#8217;s clothing styles are appropriated from 18 century Polish noblemen.</p>
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		<title>By: Treefinger</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-491072</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Treefinger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-491072</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, have it your way, but prepare for flames. I as a trans person, for example, don&#039;t like it when cis people claim to have the last word on transgender issues. I assume orthodox Jewish people aren&#039;t fond of gentiles deciding they &quot;shouldn&#039;t be worried&quot; about the feelings of said Jews due to the fact that &quot;it sounds like&quot; (based on your knowledge gleaned from this post only, by the sound of that) their culture is sexist anyway and thus undeserving of respect.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, have it your way, but prepare for flames. I as a trans person, for example, don&#8217;t like it when cis people claim to have the last word on transgender issues. I assume orthodox Jewish people aren&#8217;t fond of gentiles deciding they &#8220;shouldn&#8217;t be worried&#8221; about the feelings of said Jews due to the fact that &#8220;it sounds like&#8221; (based on your knowledge gleaned from this post only, by the sound of that) their culture is sexist anyway and thus undeserving of respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Nijuro</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-490942</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nijuro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 07:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-490942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Outsiders&quot; are well within their rights to criticize or comment on a human institution like Orthodox Judaism, seeing as how they&#039;re themselves human. What process could create an illusion that there even are outsiders? That we can&#039;t understand their strange ways? That they&#039;re too backwards to see it our way? This is both patronizing when used by the supposed outsiders and guileful when used by the perceived victim culture.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Outsiders&#8221; are well within their rights to criticize or comment on a human institution like Orthodox Judaism, seeing as how they&#8217;re themselves human. What process could create an illusion that there even are outsiders? That we can&#8217;t understand their strange ways? That they&#8217;re too backwards to see it our way? This is both patronizing when used by the supposed outsiders and guileful when used by the perceived victim culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Nijuro</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-490938</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nijuro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 07:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-490938</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For a fact I DO NOT respect your willingness to devote any of yourself to following the framework of a system constructed for belief. It DOES NOT reveal an individual mind being true to itself.

Religion gives people a reason to act despicably and then hide behind a label that they demand be respected. &quot;It&#039;s part of my culture! I was raised this way!&quot; Meanwhile, homosexuals are scorned for genuinely being born a certain way. It gives people a reason not to think because you are expected to get with the program eventually.

To put my thoughts in perspective: Bruce Lee decided at some point in his life that no one martial art was better than all others. They all had their strengths and weaknesses, so what did he do? He concocted Jeet Kune Do, a philosophy (NOT a martial art, in itself) for approaching the martial arts where you pick and choose the best moves from all the arts you study, assimilating what&#039;s useful and discarding the rest. Dedicated karate and wushu practitioners predictably baulked.

So tell me why you would follow one religion only. Tell me how, even. Do you force yourself to see it your temple&#039;s way? What if you disagree with a part of your religion? Is there something frightening about being open to all philosophies and not clinging to a religious identity? I can&#039;t understand anything about this when I look at my Irish Catholic family.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a fact I DO NOT respect your willingness to devote any of yourself to following the framework of a system constructed for belief. It DOES NOT reveal an individual mind being true to itself.</p>
<p>Religion gives people a reason to act despicably and then hide behind a label that they demand be respected. &#8220;It&#8217;s part of my culture! I was raised this way!&#8221; Meanwhile, homosexuals are scorned for genuinely being born a certain way. It gives people a reason not to think because you are expected to get with the program eventually.</p>
<p>To put my thoughts in perspective: Bruce Lee decided at some point in his life that no one martial art was better than all others. They all had their strengths and weaknesses, so what did he do? He concocted Jeet Kune Do, a philosophy (NOT a martial art, in itself) for approaching the martial arts where you pick and choose the best moves from all the arts you study, assimilating what&#8217;s useful and discarding the rest. Dedicated karate and wushu practitioners predictably baulked.</p>
<p>So tell me why you would follow one religion only. Tell me how, even. Do you force yourself to see it your temple&#8217;s way? What if you disagree with a part of your religion? Is there something frightening about being open to all philosophies and not clinging to a religious identity? I can&#8217;t understand anything about this when I look at my Irish Catholic family.</p>
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		<title>By: Nijuro</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-490923</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nijuro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 07:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-490923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re assuming your opponent&#039;s position.

Don&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re assuming your opponent&#8217;s position.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Squee</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-490255</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Squee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2011 07:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-490255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t really think that there is an answer to &quot;What is the right context?&quot; because of the many individuals who live in a &quot;culture&quot; there are also many views of what is &quot;right&quot; and what is &quot;wrong&quot;. At least not an answer that would satisfy everyone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really think that there is an answer to &#8220;What is the right context?&#8221; because of the many individuals who live in a &#8220;culture&#8221; there are also many views of what is &#8220;right&#8221; and what is &#8220;wrong&#8221;. At least not an answer that would satisfy everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Squee</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-490251</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Squee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2011 07:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-490251</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I wish I could be a mighty whitey like you and condescend so pityingly at the poor stupid minorities and women…&quot;
&quot;silenced by people like you&quot;
...and I was waiting for that. Thank you, Syd. Thank you for calling me &quot;white&quot;, although you know nothing about my skin colour, thank you for grouping me with people I don&#039;t even know.
Thank you for putting me in a corner, which is based solely on your stereotypic view - because I obviously have to be white if I dismiss culture; I obviously have to be part of the majority if I talk about minorities; I obviously cannot be a part of a minority because I don&#039;t follow the having-the-same-view-like-the-minority rule.
Thank you, Sid, for putting a wall between us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I wish I could be a mighty whitey like you and condescend so pityingly at the poor stupid minorities and women…&#8221;<br />
&#8220;silenced by people like you&#8221;<br />
&#8230;and I was waiting for that. Thank you, Syd. Thank you for calling me &#8220;white&#8221;, although you know nothing about my skin colour, thank you for grouping me with people I don&#8217;t even know.<br />
Thank you for putting me in a corner, which is based solely on your stereotypic view &#8211; because I obviously have to be white if I dismiss culture; I obviously have to be part of the majority if I talk about minorities; I obviously cannot be a part of a minority because I don&#8217;t follow the having-the-same-view-like-the-minority rule.<br />
Thank you, Sid, for putting a wall between us.</p>
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		<title>By: Treefinger</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-490197</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Treefinger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2011 05:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-490197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eeka the part that most got me about what Syd quoted was the &quot;evil&quot;. I&#039;ve never in my life heard anyone call people who practice religion, or any other form of social institution they don&#039;t like, &quot;evil&quot;, even if they think the institution itself is.

I&#039;m sure there are are lots of atheists who are paternalistic/condescending and claim everyone with a religious affiliation is brainwashed and can&#039;t think for themselves, but calling lay practitioners &quot;evil&quot; or &quot;savage&quot; is something I have yet to see.

Furthermore the fact that Syd seems to claim that her quote is on par with what the original person we are taking issue with said annoyed the shit out of me. Yes, she was uninformed and said some offensive things, but Christ.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eeka the part that most got me about what Syd quoted was the &#8220;evil&#8221;. I&#8217;ve never in my life heard anyone call people who practice religion, or any other form of social institution they don&#8217;t like, &#8220;evil&#8221;, even if they think the institution itself is.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are are lots of atheists who are paternalistic/condescending and claim everyone with a religious affiliation is brainwashed and can&#8217;t think for themselves, but calling lay practitioners &#8220;evil&#8221; or &#8220;savage&#8221; is something I have yet to see.</p>
<p>Furthermore the fact that Syd seems to claim that her quote is on par with what the original person we are taking issue with said annoyed the shit out of me. Yes, she was uninformed and said some offensive things, but Christ.</p>
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		<title>By: JDP</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-490020</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JDP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2011 00:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-490020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Worth pointing out that fashion has a terrible track record:

For example:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/02/28/the_zoolander_effect]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worth pointing out that fashion has a terrible track record:</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/02/28/the_zoolander_effect" rel="nofollow">http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/02/28/the_zoolander_effect</a></p>
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		<title>By: eeka</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-490009</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eeka]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2011 00:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-490009</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Treefinger, I&#039;ve had people tell me almost exactly that, that I&#039;m ignorant and brainwashed and can&#039;t think because I&#039;m religious.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Treefinger, I&#8217;ve had people tell me almost exactly that, that I&#8217;m ignorant and brainwashed and can&#8217;t think because I&#8217;m religious.</p>
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		<title>By: eeka</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/04/22/orthodox-jew-inspired-fashion-show/comment-page-1/#comment-490005</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[eeka]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2011 23:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=35165#comment-490005</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What strikes me as offensive is that the clothing is inspired by Hasidic Jews&#039; clothing (Hasidic folks dress like this -- not all orthodox folks), but this clothing would be outrageous and clearly out of line in the Orthodox community. Even modern Orthodox families who live very much in the mainstream and attend public schools and whatnot always wear clothing with sleeves and long skirts or long pants. 

Jewish practice doesn&#039;t generally involve being offended at other people wearing immodest clothing, but I can see it being offensive to Hasidic people to make what amounts to a mockery of their clothing in that it&#039;s clearly based on their styles, yet blatantly disregards their modesty standards and standards around avoiding wearing incorrectly gendered clothing (unless one is actually trans).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What strikes me as offensive is that the clothing is inspired by Hasidic Jews&#8217; clothing (Hasidic folks dress like this &#8212; not all orthodox folks), but this clothing would be outrageous and clearly out of line in the Orthodox community. Even modern Orthodox families who live very much in the mainstream and attend public schools and whatnot always wear clothing with sleeves and long skirts or long pants. </p>
<p>Jewish practice doesn&#8217;t generally involve being offended at other people wearing immodest clothing, but I can see it being offensive to Hasidic people to make what amounts to a mockery of their clothing in that it&#8217;s clearly based on their styles, yet blatantly disregards their modesty standards and standards around avoiding wearing incorrectly gendered clothing (unless one is actually trans).</p>
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