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	<title>Comments on: Pay in the Modeling Industry</title>
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	<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/</link>
	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-418572</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2010 00:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-418572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The balance sheet represents the items that are STILL PENDING as of the date.... not her total year&#039;s earnings.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The balance sheet represents the items that are STILL PENDING as of the date&#8230;. not her total year&#8217;s earnings.</p>
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		<title>By: ellipsisknits</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-418429</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ellipsisknits]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 20:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-418429</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think your points re: tradeoffs are good, but I have a quibble with your daily rates calculations.

This balance sheet appears to be for an entire year&#039;s earnings. In it, there are 9 jobs the model was paid for.

It is the nature of freelancing that you cannot expect to make your hourly rate 8 hours a day, 52 weeks a year. That rate needs to be adjusted to pay you for all the days you are not billable as well.

I don&#039;t know enough about the modeling industry here to know how much unpaid work is required to get those nine paid days a year. a.k.a. I don&#039;t know whether it would be reasonable to hold a second job while doing it, or whether you have to support yourself off those nine jobs alone. I get the impression it is somewhere in the middle.

Assuming that a freelancer who is paid $125 for a day&#039;s work makes the equivalent of a $32,500 salary is shortsighted and incorrect.

In this case, if all the jobs paid like vogue, the woman would be making $2250 a year. Not bad for a hobby, but not even approaching a career, or even a summer job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your points re: tradeoffs are good, but I have a quibble with your daily rates calculations.</p>
<p>This balance sheet appears to be for an entire year&#8217;s earnings. In it, there are 9 jobs the model was paid for.</p>
<p>It is the nature of freelancing that you cannot expect to make your hourly rate 8 hours a day, 52 weeks a year. That rate needs to be adjusted to pay you for all the days you are not billable as well.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know enough about the modeling industry here to know how much unpaid work is required to get those nine paid days a year. a.k.a. I don&#8217;t know whether it would be reasonable to hold a second job while doing it, or whether you have to support yourself off those nine jobs alone. I get the impression it is somewhere in the middle.</p>
<p>Assuming that a freelancer who is paid $125 for a day&#8217;s work makes the equivalent of a $32,500 salary is shortsighted and incorrect.</p>
<p>In this case, if all the jobs paid like vogue, the woman would be making $2250 a year. Not bad for a hobby, but not even approaching a career, or even a summer job.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-418306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-418306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with you on the comparison to other fields.  

In fact, this situation is comparable to other areas in which prestige comes with associated costs:
Attending a prestigious private liberal arts college – the cost is a high tuition
Experience at a highly regarded human rights NGO – the cost might be an unpaid internship
Pursuing a career in academia – the cost might be years of struggling to get by financially as a grad student

It is unfortunate and I certainly don&#039;t condone this.  But some people are willing (and able?) to incur the costs if that prestigious experience will translate, or has the potential to translate, into greater long-term rewards.

Let’s also put the model&#039;s daily rates into perspective.  
$125 per hour would translate to the equivalent of $32,500 per year (8 hour day; $15.62 per hour)
$250 per hour would translate to the equivalent of $65,000 per year (8 hour day; $31.25 per hour)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you on the comparison to other fields.  </p>
<p>In fact, this situation is comparable to other areas in which prestige comes with associated costs:<br />
Attending a prestigious private liberal arts college – the cost is a high tuition<br />
Experience at a highly regarded human rights NGO – the cost might be an unpaid internship<br />
Pursuing a career in academia – the cost might be years of struggling to get by financially as a grad student</p>
<p>It is unfortunate and I certainly don&#8217;t condone this.  But some people are willing (and able?) to incur the costs if that prestigious experience will translate, or has the potential to translate, into greater long-term rewards.</p>
<p>Let’s also put the model&#8217;s daily rates into perspective.<br />
$125 per hour would translate to the equivalent of $32,500 per year (8 hour day; $15.62 per hour)<br />
$250 per hour would translate to the equivalent of $65,000 per year (8 hour day; $31.25 per hour)</p>
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		<title>By: Molly W.</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-418299</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Molly W.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-418299</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve certainly observed this on the editorial side of publishing. Friends starting out at obscure business titles easily made 20-25% more than friends starting out at &quot;name-brand&quot; titles.

I think the two factors that make this example interesting are 1) just how dramatic the disparity is -- J. Crew is paying more than **100 times** as much as French Vogue! (though I&#039;m guessing there were more hours involved), and 2) it&#039;s counter to many people&#039;s assumptions: Despite knowing full well how things work on the editorial side, I still would&#039;ve assumed Vogue et al paid more than they do, relative to other clients.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve certainly observed this on the editorial side of publishing. Friends starting out at obscure business titles easily made 20-25% more than friends starting out at &#8220;name-brand&#8221; titles.</p>
<p>I think the two factors that make this example interesting are 1) just how dramatic the disparity is &#8212; J. Crew is paying more than **100 times** as much as French Vogue! (though I&#8217;m guessing there were more hours involved), and 2) it&#8217;s counter to many people&#8217;s assumptions: Despite knowing full well how things work on the editorial side, I still would&#8217;ve assumed Vogue et al paid more than they do, relative to other clients.</p>
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		<title>By: Reader</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-418052</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reader]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 04:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-418052</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This phenomenon isn&#039;t limited to modeling.  Many prestigious fields, for example, publishing, pay very little to entry-level and line workers.  Poor people, except for those to whom money in unimportant, tend not to work in such fields.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This phenomenon isn&#8217;t limited to modeling.  Many prestigious fields, for example, publishing, pay very little to entry-level and line workers.  Poor people, except for those to whom money in unimportant, tend not to work in such fields.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnMWhite</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-418031</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JohnMWhite]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 03:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-418031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This one is of interest, I presume, because someone submitted the imagery that accompanies the story.  That is how the site operates.  Not everything they publish must be earth shattering, it might just be a curiosity.  But it is also an area where innate physical characteristics are one of the things that determine which side of the fence a worker falls on and whether they get screwed or not.  That&#039;s important, whether it&#039;s based on a model&#039;s facial structure or a teacher&#039;s genitals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This one is of interest, I presume, because someone submitted the imagery that accompanies the story.  That is how the site operates.  Not everything they publish must be earth shattering, it might just be a curiosity.  But it is also an area where innate physical characteristics are one of the things that determine which side of the fence a worker falls on and whether they get screwed or not.  That&#8217;s important, whether it&#8217;s based on a model&#8217;s facial structure or a teacher&#8217;s genitals.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-417986</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[George]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 01:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-417986</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is all fine, but what is so special about models? There are all sorts of jobs where the pay is vastly different for similar work. You could say the same thing about, for example, academia vs. industry. There is even the same dichotomy as in the modeling example: academia is more prestigious but industry pays better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all fine, but what is so special about models? There are all sorts of jobs where the pay is vastly different for similar work. You could say the same thing about, for example, academia vs. industry. There is even the same dichotomy as in the modeling example: academia is more prestigious but industry pays better.</p>
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		<title>By: bbonnn</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-417985</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bbonnn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2010 01:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-417985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ha ha. Sadly, though, it seems the magazines can&#039;t even be arsed to cut a check for a fee which was exploitatively low to begin with. It&#039;s one thing to be unable to negotiate a better wage, but when you can&#039;t even collect that crappy wage? A whole nother level of meta suck. I wonder why the magazines bother offering any fee at all then, if they have no intention of honoring it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha ha. Sadly, though, it seems the magazines can&#8217;t even be arsed to cut a check for a fee which was exploitatively low to begin with. It&#8217;s one thing to be unable to negotiate a better wage, but when you can&#8217;t even collect that crappy wage? A whole nother level of meta suck. I wonder why the magazines bother offering any fee at all then, if they have no intention of honoring it.</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-417944</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 23:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-417944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Gwen -- I didn&#039;t mean to appear like I was challenging the example.  The point of my original post was to point out that, basically, business is complicated and it&#039;s not always pleasant.  What&#039;s curious here is that the models are actually -- believe it or not -- in a better position than a straight-up freelancer.  The agency is an intermediary.  The agency is trying to protect their relationships with the clients, but have decent leverage when it counts.  They can raise a stink, and the individual models will still have jobs in the future.  The &quot;ugliness&quot; is between the agency and the client. 

In a freelance situation where the client is a 120+ day payer... the client sort of has you by the short-and-curlies.  You annoy your contact or sue... well, you don&#039;t work for them again.  I have several friends who are freelance photographers and graphic designers -- and, their slowest payers are Conde Nast etc.  Same folks listed above.  The difference is that they don&#039;t have this advocate (however half-hearted hey are at their job on this front).  

The relationship between the agency and the model is closer to this freelance situation, EXCEPT the agency &quot;needs&quot; the model because they are their product... that they spend time and resources on developing.  

Is the Next agency pushing it?  Absolutely.  Is it their fault that the model isn&#039;t being paid?  Partially.  Is this how ALL businesses operate... leveraging clients and vendors?  ABSOLUTELY.

I dunno... I personally just don&#039;t have a whole lot of sympathy for models when they complain about being financially exploited.  It&#039;s also the MODEL&#039;s responsibility to be savvy and act like a business person.  That is part-and-parcel their job, not just looking pretty.  My buddy who&#039;s a photographer... it&#039;s not his job just to be a good photographer.  It is also his job to be a business man.

If you can&#039;t hack it, get out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Gwen &#8212; I didn&#8217;t mean to appear like I was challenging the example.  The point of my original post was to point out that, basically, business is complicated and it&#8217;s not always pleasant.  What&#8217;s curious here is that the models are actually &#8212; believe it or not &#8212; in a better position than a straight-up freelancer.  The agency is an intermediary.  The agency is trying to protect their relationships with the clients, but have decent leverage when it counts.  They can raise a stink, and the individual models will still have jobs in the future.  The &#8220;ugliness&#8221; is between the agency and the client. </p>
<p>In a freelance situation where the client is a 120+ day payer&#8230; the client sort of has you by the short-and-curlies.  You annoy your contact or sue&#8230; well, you don&#8217;t work for them again.  I have several friends who are freelance photographers and graphic designers &#8212; and, their slowest payers are Conde Nast etc.  Same folks listed above.  The difference is that they don&#8217;t have this advocate (however half-hearted hey are at their job on this front).  </p>
<p>The relationship between the agency and the model is closer to this freelance situation, EXCEPT the agency &#8220;needs&#8221; the model because they are their product&#8230; that they spend time and resources on developing.  </p>
<p>Is the Next agency pushing it?  Absolutely.  Is it their fault that the model isn&#8217;t being paid?  Partially.  Is this how ALL businesses operate&#8230; leveraging clients and vendors?  ABSOLUTELY.</p>
<p>I dunno&#8230; I personally just don&#8217;t have a whole lot of sympathy for models when they complain about being financially exploited.  It&#8217;s also the MODEL&#8217;s responsibility to be savvy and act like a business person.  That is part-and-parcel their job, not just looking pretty.  My buddy who&#8217;s a photographer&#8230; it&#8217;s not his job just to be a good photographer.  It is also his job to be a business man.</p>
<p>If you can&#8217;t hack it, get out.</p>
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		<title>By: gwen</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-417921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gwen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 23:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-417921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Her lawsuit wasn&#039;t about the level of pay itself (I just thought it was a good example of the trade-off between prestige and income, and the fact that an organization as big as Vogue can&#039;t managed to pay a $250 bill in a timely manner), it&#039;s that Next hasn&#039;t followed up with many clients and so she&#039;s never been paid for a lot of the jobs. Notice her pay is listed as &quot;unavailable balance,&quot; meaning the clients haven&#039;t paid, and the modeling agency doesn&#039;t pay HER until they get paid.

She certainly is an example of a model who is able to cross over and do both types of work, but a lot can&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Her lawsuit wasn&#8217;t about the level of pay itself (I just thought it was a good example of the trade-off between prestige and income, and the fact that an organization as big as Vogue can&#8217;t managed to pay a $250 bill in a timely manner), it&#8217;s that Next hasn&#8217;t followed up with many clients and so she&#8217;s never been paid for a lot of the jobs. Notice her pay is listed as &#8220;unavailable balance,&#8221; meaning the clients haven&#8217;t paid, and the modeling agency doesn&#8217;t pay HER until they get paid.</p>
<p>She certainly is an example of a model who is able to cross over and do both types of work, but a lot can&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-417890</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 22:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-417890</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fair enough... but Anna Jagodzinska ain&#039;t an example of that.  She&#039;s obviously getting a lot more work than the $250 a day Vogue shoots.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough&#8230; but Anna Jagodzinska ain&#8217;t an example of that.  She&#8217;s obviously getting a lot more work than the $250 a day Vogue shoots.</p>
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		<title>By: Jess</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-417886</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jess]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 21:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-417886</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That only works to the model&#039;s benefit if the exposure from the editorial work leads the model to be considered for the better-paid commercial work, but, as the post points out, the requirements for physical/facial type are different, and the same models aren&#039;t usually used.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That only works to the model&#8217;s benefit if the exposure from the editorial work leads the model to be considered for the better-paid commercial work, but, as the post points out, the requirements for physical/facial type are different, and the same models aren&#8217;t usually used.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-417878</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 21:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-417878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh no, you mean an industry built around the hideous exploitation and subjugation of women for profits.... hideously exploits and subjugates the women who work for it? Who would have thunk it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh no, you mean an industry built around the hideous exploitation and subjugation of women for profits&#8230;. hideously exploits and subjugates the women who work for it? Who would have thunk it.</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-417870</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 21:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-417870</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I should clarify... it&#039;s a &quot;loss leader&quot; for the model.  From Conde Naste/Vogue point of view, it&#039;s just plain awesome.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should clarify&#8230; it&#8217;s a &#8220;loss leader&#8221; for the model.  From Conde Naste/Vogue point of view, it&#8217;s just plain awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: T</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/12/07/pay-in-the-modeling-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-417869</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 21:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=30360#comment-417869</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s called a &quot;loss leader&quot; in business.  The spaghetti on sale at your local supermarket for $0.49 actually costs the store, say, $0.59 to buy.  They are losing $0.10 on the sale, but they got you into the doors of the store because you&#039;re saving $0.70 a box.  Chances are that you&#039;re not going to trek all the way to that store for 5 boxes of spaghetti... you&#039; re gonna buy other things that are profitable to the store. 

In this case, you get paid crap for an editorial piece for Vogue... but your &quot;Book&quot; is far more attractive to J. Crew and H&amp;M and Macy&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s called a &#8220;loss leader&#8221; in business.  The spaghetti on sale at your local supermarket for $0.49 actually costs the store, say, $0.59 to buy.  They are losing $0.10 on the sale, but they got you into the doors of the store because you&#8217;re saving $0.70 a box.  Chances are that you&#8217;re not going to trek all the way to that store for 5 boxes of spaghetti&#8230; you&#8217; re gonna buy other things that are profitable to the store. </p>
<p>In this case, you get paid crap for an editorial piece for Vogue&#8230; but your &#8220;Book&#8221; is far more attractive to J. Crew and H&amp;M and Macy&#8217;s.</p>
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