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	<title>Comments on: Women and their Maids: A Photographic Levelling</title>
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	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
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		<title>By: Peti Sita</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-533319</link>
		<dc:creator>Peti Sita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2011 00:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-533319</guid>
		<description>There is a peruvian artist who did a very similar photographic survey of the relationship between &quot;maid&quot; woman and employer woman. It seems that this project took after it since it has been more developed and makes conceptual upgrades compared to the first project by artist Natalia Iguñiz http://www.nataliaiguiniz.nom.pe/
The title of the peruvian artists&#039; project is &quot;la otra&quot; (The other). this title makes a direct reference to sociocultural aspects of alterity which I find fascinating and are not that obvious in the work of Grahan and Rumié. I think Iguñiz really captures the idea of &quot;the other&quot; but th G and R bring the discussion about class, gender and race to a higher level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a peruvian artist who did a very similar photographic survey of the relationship between &#8220;maid&#8221; woman and employer woman. It seems that this project took after it since it has been more developed and makes conceptual upgrades compared to the first project by artist Natalia Iguñiz http://www.nataliaiguiniz.nom.pe/<br />
The title of the peruvian artists&#8217; project is &#8220;la otra&#8221; (The other). this title makes a direct reference to sociocultural aspects of alterity which I find fascinating and are not that obvious in the work of Grahan and Rumié. I think Iguñiz really captures the idea of &#8220;the other&#8221; but th G and R bring the discussion about class, gender and race to a higher level.</p>
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		<title>By: Perspectives Photography&#187; Blog Archive &#187; Maids pictures</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-523151</link>
		<dc:creator>Perspectives Photography&#187; Blog Archive &#187; Maids pictures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 16:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-523151</guid>
		<description>[...] Women and their Maids: A Photographic Levelling В» Sociological Images Jul 13, 2010 &#8230; The photographers, Justine Graham and Ruby RumiГ©, took pictures of 50 pairs of women вЂ” maids and &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Women and their Maids: A Photographic Levelling В» Sociological Images Jul 13, 2010 &#8230; The photographers, Justine Graham and Ruby RumiГ©, took pictures of 50 pairs of women вЂ” maids and &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: nina</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-509239</link>
		<dc:creator>nina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2011 07:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-509239</guid>
		<description>I thought that the fact the employers were described as &quot;women&quot; and the employees as &quot;maid&quot; was revealing in itself. They are both &quot;women&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought that the fact the employers were described as &#8220;women&#8221; and the employees as &#8220;maid&#8221; was revealing in itself. They are both &#8220;women&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rabbit</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-417372</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 19:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-417372</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure most of us were playing that game.  My eyes were on the shoulders, the assumption being that the person sitting up straighter is the &quot;woman&quot; and the other the &quot;maid.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure most of us were playing that game.  My eyes were on the shoulders, the assumption being that the person sitting up straighter is the &#8220;woman&#8221; and the other the &#8220;maid.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: B B</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-417144</link>
		<dc:creator>B B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 05:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-417144</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you’re reading this, I love you.&quot;

after reading many insightful &amp; impressive comments in this thread, I came to this  - i laughed out loud in delight &amp; recognition - thank you for making this personal in such a nice way! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you’re reading this, I love you.&#8221;</p>
<p>after reading many insightful &amp; impressive comments in this thread, I came to this  &#8211; i laughed out loud in delight &amp; recognition &#8211; thank you for making this personal in such a nice way! :)</p>
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		<title>By: fnord</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-407486</link>
		<dc:creator>fnord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 16:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-407486</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it&#039;s an issue of class hierarchy. The impression I&#039;ve gotten is that looking into someone&#039;s eyes is something that basically isn&#039;t done except in conversations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s an issue of class hierarchy. The impression I&#8217;ve gotten is that looking into someone&#8217;s eyes is something that basically isn&#8217;t done except in conversations.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Ann Hogan</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-358167</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Ann Hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-358167</guid>
		<description>We see this only now when some women can afford a housekeeper. Where&#039;s the photo study of men (from the beginning of time who had women clean their houses) trying to look their housekeeper&#039;s in the eye. Oh yeah. They&#039;d have no problem at all. Subordinating women for money, or no money, is part of that which men feel entitled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We see this only now when some women can afford a housekeeper. Where&#8217;s the photo study of men (from the beginning of time who had women clean their houses) trying to look their housekeeper&#8217;s in the eye. Oh yeah. They&#8217;d have no problem at all. Subordinating women for money, or no money, is part of that which men feel entitled.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-352824</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 09:08:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-352824</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s what s/he was saying. A job is a job. They&#039;re doing what they can to support themselves, and probably their families. S/he didn&#039;t say that if you asked a maid whether they *liked* their job they&#039;d say yes (though some might), just whether working as a maid was better than not working at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s what s/he was saying. A job is a job. They&#8217;re doing what they can to support themselves, and probably their families. S/he didn&#8217;t say that if you asked a maid whether they *liked* their job they&#8217;d say yes (though some might), just whether working as a maid was better than not working at all.</p>
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		<title>By: zedster</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-352210</link>
		<dc:creator>zedster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-352210</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Some will argue that stereotyping is only destructive. I would argue that it is only destructive if the stereotype is continued to be held even in spite of evidence of the contrary.&lt;/i&gt;

This is flawed because you assume that &quot;stereotype&quot; to be by definition true until proven false, which is typically not the case. To stereotype is just that: take one simplistic example/opinion/idea of someone and apply it on an entire group of people over and over. There&#039;s nothing to be said about that idea being statistically significant or representative of said group, only that idea &quot;feels right&quot; and meshes with the biases/assumptions/beliefs of the one doing the stereotyping. If someone &quot;feels&quot; that a group of people is subhuman and should be subjected to wholesale violence upon their person, land, and possessions, holding onto that stereotype until &quot;evidence of the contrary&quot; is destructive, dangerous, and vile.

That&#039;s stereotyping. Then there is generalizing. Generalizing, while also simplistic, is a rough &lt;i&gt;representation&lt;/i&gt; of a group of people, based not on a person&#039;s &quot;feelings&quot; but on common (that is representative) attributes of the group that can be verified. Inherent in a generalization is that it doesn&#039;t necessarily apply to everyone. The generalization that humans are social animals that tend to create networks and hierarchies among themselves not a stereotype, it is a generalization that can be verified as representative of most humans, but there are exceptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Some will argue that stereotyping is only destructive. I would argue that it is only destructive if the stereotype is continued to be held even in spite of evidence of the contrary.</i></p>
<p>This is flawed because you assume that &#8220;stereotype&#8221; to be by definition true until proven false, which is typically not the case. To stereotype is just that: take one simplistic example/opinion/idea of someone and apply it on an entire group of people over and over. There&#8217;s nothing to be said about that idea being statistically significant or representative of said group, only that idea &#8220;feels right&#8221; and meshes with the biases/assumptions/beliefs of the one doing the stereotyping. If someone &#8220;feels&#8221; that a group of people is subhuman and should be subjected to wholesale violence upon their person, land, and possessions, holding onto that stereotype until &#8220;evidence of the contrary&#8221; is destructive, dangerous, and vile.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s stereotyping. Then there is generalizing. Generalizing, while also simplistic, is a rough <i>representation</i> of a group of people, based not on a person&#8217;s &#8220;feelings&#8221; but on common (that is representative) attributes of the group that can be verified. Inherent in a generalization is that it doesn&#8217;t necessarily apply to everyone. The generalization that humans are social animals that tend to create networks and hierarchies among themselves not a stereotype, it is a generalization that can be verified as representative of most humans, but there are exceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: zedster</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-352202</link>
		<dc:creator>zedster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-352202</guid>
		<description>Took the words right out of my mouth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Took the words right out of my mouth.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-352141</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-352141</guid>
		<description>... o.0</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; o.0</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-352128</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-352128</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t helpful because it doesn&#039;t tell you which one is the maid and which one is the housekeeper. I am relatively certain that I was able to guess all of them correctly but I will never know. If they wanted to reinforce the idea that there is no stereotypes than they should have proved me wrong.

How to properly stereotype the women:

skin color - although this is the most obvious, it may also be the most deceiving. The author may have chosen counter-norm maid/employer pairs to employ a false sense of reality (much like the American media).

muscle mass - I believe this may actually be the best indicator of who does the work. Take a look at this first 2 photos and you will notice that both darker colored women have significantly more muscle mass than there counterparts. This would be indicative of harder and more work performed. However, this may also be deceiving since the employer may have more time to work out.

Facial information - This is another really good cue. Notice how in the second picture the woman on the right looks more charismatic. Notice her facial expression employs an authoritative look. Contrast this with the maids, &quot;submissive&quot; expression. 

Overall health - By examining the skin quality, weight, hair quality and facial structures one can easily determine who is &quot;taken care of&quot; more.

There is nothing wrong with stereotyping. In fact, stereotyping is a sign of higher intellect. I believe it is an evolutionary advantage for humans to be able to recognize, analyze and predict results before we know the actual results. This is the basis of all scientific fields. For example, we use mathematics through the known theories of physics to predict whether a plane will fly before we actually build the plane. 

Some will argue that stereotyping is only destructive. I would argue that it is only destructive if the stereotype is continued to be held even in spite of evidence of the contrary. Much like science, if a theory is empirically shown to be wrong than we must trash that theory and start a new. If our previously held stereotype of an individual is called into question based on observations then we should quickly reevaluate the situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t helpful because it doesn&#8217;t tell you which one is the maid and which one is the housekeeper. I am relatively certain that I was able to guess all of them correctly but I will never know. If they wanted to reinforce the idea that there is no stereotypes than they should have proved me wrong.</p>
<p>How to properly stereotype the women:</p>
<p>skin color &#8211; although this is the most obvious, it may also be the most deceiving. The author may have chosen counter-norm maid/employer pairs to employ a false sense of reality (much like the American media).</p>
<p>muscle mass &#8211; I believe this may actually be the best indicator of who does the work. Take a look at this first 2 photos and you will notice that both darker colored women have significantly more muscle mass than there counterparts. This would be indicative of harder and more work performed. However, this may also be deceiving since the employer may have more time to work out.</p>
<p>Facial information &#8211; This is another really good cue. Notice how in the second picture the woman on the right looks more charismatic. Notice her facial expression employs an authoritative look. Contrast this with the maids, &#8220;submissive&#8221; expression. </p>
<p>Overall health &#8211; By examining the skin quality, weight, hair quality and facial structures one can easily determine who is &#8220;taken care of&#8221; more.</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with stereotyping. In fact, stereotyping is a sign of higher intellect. I believe it is an evolutionary advantage for humans to be able to recognize, analyze and predict results before we know the actual results. This is the basis of all scientific fields. For example, we use mathematics through the known theories of physics to predict whether a plane will fly before we actually build the plane. </p>
<p>Some will argue that stereotyping is only destructive. I would argue that it is only destructive if the stereotype is continued to be held even in spite of evidence of the contrary. Much like science, if a theory is empirically shown to be wrong than we must trash that theory and start a new. If our previously held stereotype of an individual is called into question based on observations then we should quickly reevaluate the situation.</p>
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		<title>By: M</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-345335</link>
		<dc:creator>M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-345335</guid>
		<description>Why is it &quot;women and their housekeepers&quot; and not &quot;couples or men with their housekeepres&quot;? Your standpoint is that it is the woman&#039;s role to do the housekeeping and that the maids only replace HER.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it &#8220;women and their housekeepers&#8221; and not &#8220;couples or men with their housekeepres&#8221;? Your standpoint is that it is the woman&#8217;s role to do the housekeeping and that the maids only replace HER.</p>
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		<title>By: N</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-344969</link>
		<dc:creator>N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-344969</guid>
		<description>I am a mom and I definitely tire of the assumption that &quot;women&#039;s work&quot; is less valuable than &quot;men&#039;s work&quot;. Women&#039;s work is typically that which is absolutely utterly essential for the daily functioning of society- preparing food, caring for and rearing human beings,maintaining a healthy environment, yet the importance of it goes unrecognized.

And,to allude to what someone else mentioned, when there are feelings of shame on the part of the employer, it is the female who bears the burden. The woman who is shirking her duties and hiring a nanny,the woman who doesn&#039;t clean and do what a proper woman should do.

I&#039;m thinking now of Mary Poppins in the movie. I liked her because she respected herself and her position and seemed to feel more like she was a professional that the family needed, than a &quot;servant&quot;. And any sense of superiority she felt was toward BOTH parents, not simply the mother.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a mom and I definitely tire of the assumption that &#8220;women&#8217;s work&#8221; is less valuable than &#8220;men&#8217;s work&#8221;. Women&#8217;s work is typically that which is absolutely utterly essential for the daily functioning of society- preparing food, caring for and rearing human beings,maintaining a healthy environment, yet the importance of it goes unrecognized.</p>
<p>And,to allude to what someone else mentioned, when there are feelings of shame on the part of the employer, it is the female who bears the burden. The woman who is shirking her duties and hiring a nanny,the woman who doesn&#8217;t clean and do what a proper woman should do.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking now of Mary Poppins in the movie. I liked her because she respected herself and her position and seemed to feel more like she was a professional that the family needed, than a &#8220;servant&#8221;. And any sense of superiority she felt was toward BOTH parents, not simply the mother.</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/13/women-and-their-maids-a-photographic-levelling/comment-page-1/#comment-344958</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=24909#comment-344958</guid>
		<description>Domestic labor, in most every society, is seen as women&#039;s work. Some cultures value the domestic class more than others, but most all devalue it compared to skilled or manual labor.

And thanks for being the only commenter so far that I&#039;ve seen who recognizes the sexism underneath classism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Domestic labor, in most every society, is seen as women&#8217;s work. Some cultures value the domestic class more than others, but most all devalue it compared to skilled or manual labor.</p>
<p>And thanks for being the only commenter so far that I&#8217;ve seen who recognizes the sexism underneath classism.</p>
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