No, this does not mediate how oppressive the burqa seems to me. The burqa is a symbol--both to cultures that mandate it and to feminists that oppose it--of the subservient role that women have in those cultures. The idea that a woman should not be seen on the street other than as a fluttery bag/sheet, of any hue or pattern, is morally repugnant to me.

check out my 10 minute play "Burqa and Bikini." I don't wanna spam, but please check it out for a perspective from a Muslim feminist (me) on the burqa...

http://deadamericandream.blogspot.com/2009/09/49-burqa-and-bikini.html

I used to wear hijab and wore abaya's (long cloaks) for about 3 years, so this issue is very close to my heart.

From a certain cultural perspective, certainly, the burqa seems completely oppressive, but if we were to do a thought experiment, and say that perhaps, in North America, the culture states that women are NOT allowed to cover their heads in any way, shape or form, including hats, scarves, wigs, etc. Can you imagine this? Hair colour, however, is optional. Is it repressive? If this is the context in which you grew up, would it seem so? If the media from another culture allowing and promoting head covering saw this, how would it portray North America? (*I am using general "cultural" areas to avoid specific religion(s), etc.)

Of course, if we look at the right to choose as the ultimate freedom, then what are the boundaries and limits of those choices? I thought that the burqa was oppressive until I started reading various arguments from women who wear/ wore them, and it often appears that whatever side is taken by those involved in the argument, the consensus seems to be that more understanding, at a grassroots level, is necessary for those of us outside of that particular cultural context. As far as I am concerned, the greatest freedom would be to allow women to choose to either wear or not wear the burqa anywhere, without othering. The other issue I find with this is that many North American media sources tend to lump all Muslim cultures equally, but there are vast differences in and among them, so before we can really discuss these issues in depth, we need to know more.

There are several style blogs for Muslim women who wear Muslim dress - the one I know is http://thehijablog.wordpress.com/ but she links to several more.

As soon as you start looking you can see what an enormous variety of styles there are, and how much, say, Indonesian Muslim dress differs from Turkish differs from Pakistani differs from Saudi. Even with the full niqab (face covering veil) there are very big differences.

I wouldn't choose to wear something over my face, but I also don't choose to follow codes of modest dress set out by some Orthodox Jews and Christian groups. I think it's really problematic to say that one is more 'oppressive' than the other.

The question is whether it would realistically be possible for women to not wear a burqa and still be allowed/able to leave the house. Which is why I am so angry at the French law. It falsely assumes that women will now simply leave the house without wearing it. This is absolutely ridiculous. Many will not even be allowed to and in states such as Afghanistan, it will simply not even be safe in many cases to do so.
However, the entire issue of "free will" is obsolete when one's never known anything else.

If you get a chance, watch Women in Black
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1232820/
a BBC documentary that follows a British women from the Middle East when she visits several countries and talks with women who wear burqas. People have criticized it for being a fluff piece, but I think it offers an interesting perspective.

I'm glad you brought up the issue of "choice" as a central tenet of Western societies...I was just having this conversation this morning; a non-citizen man in France was denied French citizenship for forcing his (French citizen, Muslim) wife to wear a face covering (not sure if it was technically niqaab or burqa, and I do think it's important to use the right terminology). I argued that the man's actions were abusive; a friend argued that "choice" is not a central tenet to every society.

That said, I personally do support choice in all regards - to wear a burqa or not, a bikini or not, etc. and I think it absurd when Western women like some of the commenters above me presume to know what's best for Muslim women. Frankly, it doesn't matter what you think - if a woman wants to cover her body in its entirety, THAT IS HER CHOICE.

And Lisa, there are tons of sites that sell stuff like this. I wrote a piece for Bitch magazine's last issue on Hijablogging - tons of blogs, tons of shops online.

What always makes me sad is when the choice or "choice" in many cases to wear something comes down to some theological construct. Is that god belief ever questioned to even necessitate following its supposed moral precepts set up in the specific dogmas (which always have real material foundations that serve a class and a gender)?

I'd bet the answer: not all that often.

...and that completely leaves out questioning the societal "norms" that back up whatever clothing is or isn't acceptable (bikini, burqa or anything, really). Just because the elite, men, god(s), my society, etc. say this or that is moral does nothing to actual prove the case --I'd argue the exact opposite.

And so we can clear this up, the only countries that force women by law to cover their HEADS (not their faces) are Iran and Saudi Arabia. Afghanistan under the Taliban was the only country to EVER require the burqa, but it does not now...which is not to say a woman who doesn't is safe.

I agree with what the guy said in the video. If ANYONE choses to dress a certain way as a religious statement, good for them. More power to them. But if they are being forced to from very young ages so it becomes automatic and they dont even think of it as not being their choice anymore (just a norm), there is certainly something wrong with that.

Something that comes to mind if the show 18 (or 19) Kids and Counting. Those girls are ALWAYS wearing dresses. Long dresses at that which dont show much skin, but even when they were playing with a water slide in their yard, they were wearing the dresses. And even the boys had shirts and pants on. No swimsuits. Is that the parents being overly strict or even oppressive? Or just being modest?

My limited understanding of this issue is informed by Persepolis and Reading Lolita in Tehran, both by Iranian feminists (and really good reads!). The burqa was absolutely oppressive to them and they both rebelled against it.

A major problem with the burqa to me, is that it is part of a larger set of restrictions on appearance that are regularly enforced in intrusive ways. Even while wearing a burqa in Iran, these women could be stopped at any time to be inspected by the revolutionary guards and hauled off to jail if they found even a faint trace of makeup. So forcing women to wear burqas seems like criminalizing femininity in general and rejecting basic rights to privacy, even while supposedly protecting them by shrouding women completely. So no, the color of the burqa is irrelevant, I think. If anything that hot pink one might make you more conspicuous to guards on the street.

Regarding "choosing" burqa styles: AFAIK you cannot in Afghanistan. Mainly light blue. Potentially some other pastel colors. However, that would still come down to the same as FLDS: They can choose between pastel colors... and that's that. Again: If you could not possibly choose (for safety reasons, since you are not seen as an equal human being, but belonging to either your father or husband), then the entire issue of "choice" becomes irrelevant.

It's inherently unequal. Men are not expected to hide their faces, their hair, their silhouette. Men are not told they must hide these parts of their bodies to avoid arousing women. Women hold the responsibility to make sure no one in public has sexual thoughts or feelings about them. You may even claim, they want to be judged by character, not appearance and again I would say, that's fine, but why does no one expect that of men?

"Oppressed" seems too subjective a word, too many different meanings to different cultures. There's no way to quantify it.

But at the very least, can we agree that it is unequal to expect this type of dress and modesty from women and not from men?

I find this really interesting as I've only once met a woman wearing a burqa(?). I was doing midwifery work experience at a major hospital and a woman came in, covered head to toe in black. Right away the midwife I was working with went to find out if there was a female doctor available as she thought it was likely the woman would only feel comfortable being treated by women.

She couldn't have been more wrong. After being shown to her room she asked if she should strip off, the midwife said she could if she wanted to and they'd close the curtain as well as the door for her privacy. The lady said okay, took the burqa off showing very modern clothing underneath, a skimpy singlet and tracksuit pants. Then she kept going down to a hot pink g string and nothing else. When offered the choice between a male or female doctor she took the next one available - a man - and was clearly very comfortable with him. She was a really smart & funny and was clearly the dominant partner in her relationship with her husband who had converted to Islam for her.

Meeting her made me realise how quickly we tend to judge women by what they're wearing - whatever that may be. And while she's just one woman I'd like to think there are many other women out there making the same choice as her. I hate the idea of women being forced into covering themselves, but I can appreciate that if it was culturally appropriate for me I could make the same decision she has and be very happy in it. Especially as a fat woman I think it would in many ways shield me from the judgements people make although they'd be replaced by other judgements that may not be any better.

Great, the American Flag burqua is so totally against the Flag Code, the pet cause of the anti-flag burning nationalists in these United States. Of course, so is any US flag-like piece of clothing or credit card...

Just surprised that no one threw that one (flag code) into the ring...

I'm a white, British, atheist woman. And I don't think I have a lot of choice in what I wear (some, but not a lot). Indeed, the choices which I have made (largely within the "allowed" choices for women's clothing) get me a lot of negative comments from many people. Some people complain that my attire is too "mannish" or "boring" or just plain "ugly", others complain that the *same* attire is "too revealing" or "slutty".

There are a lot of clothes that I would like to wear, but simply don't feel that I would be comfortable with the level of attention or rude commentary that might result. I do feel that our (British) society heavily polices what women are "allowed" to wear, not (generally) on a legal level, but certainly on a social level. For instance I do not feel that I could freely choose to wear a burqa or other face-covering, indeed I think women who do make that choice are very courageous to do so; for a different instance I do not feel that I could freely choose to stroll around town in a micro mini and a bikini top.

Yes, some women are being forced (with violence, or by law) to wear garments that they don't want to wear. And I do think that is bad. But the problem is not with the garment itself, it is with the people who are doing the forcing.

"...does this mediate how oppressive the burqa seems to you"

It does not mediate it for me... a clever try though!
The fact that some women find some 'wiggle room' in this does not change the overwhelming barbaric medieval connotations this symbolizes to me.
Philosophically, I see it as an inability to come to terms with modernity.

This is one of the few times I disagree entirely with Sociological Images. The burqa is a male invention for shielding men from women's bodies, and to suggest that any woman, left to her own doing (without ideological brainwashing), would voluntarily wear this garment is ridiculous.

Saying that this garment is blatantly sexist is not the same as insisting that western standards of clothing are an indication of liberation.

If we kept women from wearing their burqa if they actually wanted to we would then be the oppressors. I do think the burqa is seen as bad because of things we have heard of middle eastern coutries but we should respect what they want to wear and if we want to wear something different we can but we shouldn't talk about what some muslim women enjoy wearing

its sad how the woman is pretty much forced to wear that! here in the united states if a woman wears a mini skirt and a tank top its acceptable but it the woman shows more than her eyes than she is punished and sometimes beatten! and to not have the chance to pick out atleast the color you like is wrong... wow why do the men have to feel like they are in bigger power than the men? we are the one's who created them and we have no say in anything except to obey.... thats putting the woman pretty much in the slave catagory!

My only problem with the burqa is that it covers the face. In my interaction with others, I feel not as connected with the other person when I can´t read their emotions on their face. Expressions contribute a lot to conversations IMO. I dislike talking on the phone and online for similair reasons.

However, I see nothing oppressing with covering you hair and body if that is the choice of the person wearing it. But why also covering the face? The face is hardly sexual since a lot of the time male and female faces are very alike. Not allowing make up would be more logical.

Also, a genuine question: how do muslim women recognise each other? How would you find your friends if everyone is wearing a burqa? I mean, when I go to lectures, I always go sit with my friends. But you can't yell in a lecture hall so how would you recognise each other?

Women have the right to wear what they choose, sure.

HOWEVER... is not the burqa (and niqab for that matter) an inherent representation of oppression of women? Doesn't it encourage a world-view in which women should not be seen and are of less value than men?

Even if the women who wear it do not necessarily see it that way, I'd argue that it is plain for an objective observer to see.

I don't really have a problem with hijab. But a woman who chooses to wear the burqa is choosing to be a part of something that perpetuates the subjugation of fellow Muslim women. I realise it is patronising to say, but some people don't know what's good for them.

I also have to say that it interests me that so many people jump to compare the burqa to the bikini or mini-skirt. The burqa, from what I understand, when it is required, it is required in all public spaces. The bikini, on the other hand, is never required and is really only acceptable in certain public spaces, like the beach, pools, fashion and men's magazines. So, they aren't really comparable at all. Mini-skirts, well, it's up to the discretion of the woman, but there are public places where it seems acceptable, a concert, a college campus, and places where it isn't, a professional office, church.

The burqa, when it is required, is required in all public spaces. If you were going to try to compare this to some item of western dress, why pick the bikini or mini-skirt?????? They are both extremes of two different cultures, each with their own issues with misogyny.

But no one has really addressed my first question: how do you explain that no one requires men to wear anything remotely like a burqa? Metaphor or not, oppressive or not, it is not EQUAL to have different dress requirements (by law) for men and women. How can anyone defend that without suspending the idea that gender equality is important?

What attracts me most to this topic is how it confronts so many assumptions in one, easy-to-reach conundrum.

Reading over the comments, I notice how many people try to frame this as "choice" (and anecdotals by the truckload), while failing to acknowledge that cultural indoctrination is the illusion of choice.

My initial sense of it (and i"m probably wrong about this) is that Western women feel a tinge of guilt when confronted with (obvious) cultural oppression, but come into conflict with the prime liberal directive of cultural non-intervention. How can we feel ok about the lack of action? By framing the wearing of these clothes as a "choice" in some context: avoidance of 'the male gaze', a conscious decision to present oneself as sexually unavailable, etc.

Probably one of the most maddening aspects of this topic is the assumption that burqua/hijab-wearing women are unhappy or miserable in their existence. I think this is a form of psychological projection, where we think "My goodness, I'd be so miserable if I had to dress like that" without considering that "normal" for another person may be quite comfortable, thank you very much.

Interesting stuff, that's for sure.

I find the cultural relativism surrounding this sort of topic interesting, if a bit frustrating.

In another recent Contexts post we were shown a trend in LA of scantily clad girls working at coffee shops. The clear consensus was this was oppressive patriarchy and effects of the white-male gaze.

Now we're given another extreme, of women largely indoctrinated to hide their appearance so as it avoid the male gaze, and the consensus seems to ignore the patriarchal background behind the practice and instead celebrate the Muslima 'freedom' to wear whatever she wants.

And then there is some strange rationalization that such modest dress isn't required by law in middle eastern countries, so therefor it's not really required. As if the lingerie bowl here is somehow required by law. Oppression while often backed by law has never required it.

Wow, if that's not seeing the forest for the trees.

Personally I can't wait for the 'freedom' of both the nudist and the most 'modest' moralist to sit side by side without fisticuffs.

I have seen several Muslim women around Germany clad in full face covering, although most women I have seen tend to cover the hair/neck areas. I think we should separate between several points:

- The fact that in some countries, not dressing according to the social norm might have real repercussions. Not that fellow citizens might mock you, not even workplace discrimination, but you might get raped, get an acid thrown at you, or even get murdered on counts of your family "honour". This type of violence - whatever culture it happens in - makes a lot of difference.
Take the issue of clothing in public saunas. It is considered here unhealthy (among other reasons, which are probably mostly cultural) to be dressed (in a bathing suit or something similar) in a public sauna. Even in a mixed sex sauna (it is a matter of social conventions - the same neighbour who sits next to you, both in "Eve's clothing", will address you as "Sie"). However, the worst thing that could happen to someone who doesn't want to go all nude in the sauna is to be banned from it. No one will throw acid on his or her face.

- Being modest in the nikab/chador/burqa doesn't mean that you're afraid to be nude in appropriate context (e.g. hospital). If to return to the sauna, one of the women in my sauna is an obviously religious Muslima, who would pray after getting dressed after the sauna (in which she has been naked).

- In the past few years some Western Muslims are looking for a way to continue to express their religious identity while forging a new "Western-Muslim" identity. In fact, even wearing a head-scarf in the West is different in the past 20 years than it has been before. The burqas presented in this blog are not "authentic" in the sense that traditional Afghani women will wear blue or siimilar "subdued" colours (the whole point is to hide the woman). "Loud" colours such as red are deemed inappropriate. In Western societies, part of wearing a head-scarf is to say "I am Muslim" and "I am not a 'cheap' woman". Within this, a woman might as well dress in colours, patterns or combinations that are hardly traditional. But these are head-scarf wearing woman. In a way, covering your face is avoiding all communication (or means to identify yourself).

I might accept that a woman who walks around in a US flag burqa has chosen that (when I will see that on an actual person, the only faced-covered women I saw had traditional black niqab). However, does this represent the majority of burqa wearing women?