Comments on: The Fractal Nature of the Gender Binary: Or Blue vs. Turquoise http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/ Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry. Fri, 25 May 2012 19:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Department of WIN: Polarn O. Pyret « Mothers For Women’s Lib http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-362678 Department of WIN: Polarn O. Pyret « Mothers For Women’s Lib Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:11:38 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-362678 [...] is gendered by the colour it is (olive green for boys, pale yellow for girls, for example; even blue clothing, for example, has a “girl” shade and a “boy” shade), and vice versa (and orange top, for example, will be marked as “girl” or [...] [...] is gendered by the colour it is (olive green for boys, pale yellow for girls, for example; even blue clothing, for example, has a “girl” shade and a “boy” shade), and vice versa (and orange top, for example, will be marked as “girl” or [...]

]]> By: Fractal Sociology | TemporaryArtist http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-343629 Fractal Sociology | TemporaryArtist Mon, 19 Jul 2010 03:49:13 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-343629 [...] Fractal Sociology Posted on 2010. július 19. by toon http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquois... [...] [...] Fractal Sociology Posted on 2010. július 19. by toon http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquois… [...]

]]> By: Morgan Leichter-Saxby http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-211591 Morgan Leichter-Saxby Sat, 06 Feb 2010 13:34:44 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-211591 [...] I have dared peek into.  I’m going to reference Images again here, for a great post on the fractal nature of the binary, which explains how you can have things which appear to subvert this gender policing, [...] [...] I have dared peek into.  I’m going to reference Images again here, for a great post on the fractal nature of the binary, which explains how you can have things which appear to subvert this gender policing, [...]

]]> By: kate http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-202186 kate Tue, 26 Jan 2010 06:56:28 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-202186 mmmm....the bit about the bell curve and the iq tests....you said that women tend to cluster around the middle while men gravitate towards the ends? meaning that more women are average and more men are either really dumb or geniuses. i would like to point out that a large number of sociocultural factors come into play with iq tests and for this reason they are not an extremely valuable measure of intelligence. i would like to postulate that our society's norms and gender beliefs are such that women will learn to think of themselves as average and men will tend to either rebel (by refusing to learn how to think critically and analytically) or receive the preferential treatment that fosters this kind of intelligence. just putting it out there. mmmm….the bit about the bell curve and the iq tests….you said that women tend to cluster around the middle while men gravitate towards the ends? meaning that more women are average and more men are either really dumb or geniuses. i would like to point out that a large number of sociocultural factors come into play with iq tests and for this reason they are not an extremely valuable measure of intelligence. i would like to postulate that our society’s norms and gender beliefs are such that women will learn to think of themselves as average and men will tend to either rebel (by refusing to learn how to think critically and analytically) or receive the preferential treatment that fosters this kind of intelligence. just putting it out there.

]]> By: Quick hit: the gender binary fractal in geekdom | Geek Feminism Blog http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186943 Quick hit: the gender binary fractal in geekdom | Geek Feminism Blog Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:32:52 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186943 [...] a fair bit of Sociological Images already. However, they get a Quick Hit because their recent post The Fractal Nature of the Gender Binary: Or Blue vs. Turquoise continues on a theme I discussed in one of my earliest posts here, “Girl stuff” in Free [...] [...] a fair bit of Sociological Images already. However, they get a Quick Hit because their recent post The Fractal Nature of the Gender Binary: Or Blue vs. Turquoise continues on a theme I discussed in one of my earliest posts here, “Girl stuff” in Free [...]

]]> By: KarenM http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186728 KarenM Sat, 09 Jan 2010 14:11:17 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186728 "the sociological need to define things as masculine and feminine" - need? 'tendency' maybe, but where does 'need' come into it? Is it a purely sociological phenomenom? Here I was thinking that sociology was the study of society and what everyone does and says... not just sociologists. If sociologists have an tendency to see things in masculine and feminine, which I don't actually think they do, then it must be reflecting something they observe in the outside world. And complain about it? Well, I've never thought of sociological discussion as complaining (though actually I can see where you're coming from) but I don't think complaining is necessarily a bad thing anyway. Complaining for the sake of letting off steam, that could get frustrating. But complaining to challenge a common misconception, or an injustice, or a falsely assigned label - that's complaining for a purpose, ususually to try change people's minds on it, and thus to change it. (You seem to be doing the former type of complaining, by the way.) I fail to see how ethnicity has anything to do with thinking neutral is a preferable label for things without (as someone put it above) gonads or x/y chromosones, when you don't know the ethnicity of people commenting? I give up. I could be doing much better things with my time than sitting here in a useless argument, with someone who assumes we're all old complainey biased 'liberals' of singular ethnicity (American?) “the sociological need to define things as masculine and feminine” –
need? ‘tendency’ maybe, but where does ‘need’ come into it? Is it a purely sociological phenomenom? Here I was thinking that sociology was the study of society and what everyone does and says… not just sociologists. If sociologists have an tendency to see things in masculine and feminine, which I don’t actually think they do, then it must be reflecting something they observe in the outside world.

And complain about it? Well, I’ve never thought of sociological discussion as complaining (though actually I can see where you’re coming from) but I don’t think complaining is necessarily a bad thing anyway. Complaining for the sake of letting off steam, that could get frustrating. But complaining to challenge a common misconception, or an injustice, or a falsely assigned label – that’s complaining for a purpose, ususually to try change people’s minds on it, and thus to change it. (You seem to be doing the former type of complaining, by the way.)

I fail to see how ethnicity has anything to do with thinking neutral is a preferable label for things without (as someone put it above) gonads or x/y chromosones, when you don’t know the ethnicity of people commenting? I give up. I could be doing much better things with my time than sitting here in a useless argument, with someone who assumes we’re all old complainey biased ‘liberals’ of singular ethnicity (American?)

]]> By: Evan http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186561 Evan Sat, 09 Jan 2010 01:56:57 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186561 Ugh! this frustrated me so in undergrad gender communications. I am so confused by the sociological need to both define things as masculine and feminine - as well as complain about the labeling of things as masculine and feminine. Not to mention that many (or most?) modern languages have masculine and feminine attributes built right in - - We are so ethnocentric that we assume neutral is better than masculine or feminine? Also -and maybe this is a generational thing - but i am not sure if we should still assume that values of good or bad are automatically attached to masculine and feminine objects and attitudes... so what is it we are discussing? Accepting things live on that continuum is accepting the natural world (by that I mean nature). I just don't understand the value of this thread of "liberalism" at all. Ugh! this frustrated me so in undergrad gender communications.

I am so confused by the sociological need to both define things as masculine and feminine – as well as complain about the labeling of things as masculine and feminine.

Not to mention that many (or most?) modern languages have masculine and feminine attributes built right in – - We are so ethnocentric that we assume neutral is better than masculine or feminine?

Also -and maybe this is a generational thing – but i am not sure if we should still assume that values of good or bad are automatically attached to masculine and feminine objects and attitudes… so what is it we are discussing?

Accepting things live on that continuum is accepting the natural world (by that I mean nature). I just don’t understand the value of this thread of “liberalism” at all.

]]> By: KarenM http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186481 KarenM Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:22:30 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186481 Gymnastics? Really? I don't know, gymnastics aren't that big here in Ireland, so I only ever see them during the olympics - seems to be a fair number of men there too? Maybe yoga as a 'feminine' sport? or pilates even more so? Gymnastics? Really? I don’t know, gymnastics aren’t that big here in Ireland, so I only ever see them during the olympics – seems to be a fair number of men there too?

Maybe yoga as a ‘feminine’ sport? or pilates even more so?

]]> By: Jeff Kaufman http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186434 Jeff Kaufman Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:03:42 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186434 "What out there has significance to human beings but absolutely no gender connotations ascribed to it? End tables? Hurricanes? Whoops, storms are gendered female ..." Hurricanes switch off between genders: "Gender alternates both between adjacent names in a list (a male name is followed by a female one and vice versa) and between initial names between lists (if one year's list starts with a female name, the next year's list begins with a male one and vice versa)." -- wikipedia For example, hurricanes bob and andrew are male. As for "women's sports", what about gymnastics? “What out there has significance to human beings but absolutely no gender connotations ascribed to it? End tables? Hurricanes? Whoops, storms are gendered female …”

Hurricanes switch off between genders:

“Gender alternates both between adjacent
names in a list (a male name is followed
by a female one and vice versa) and
between initial names between lists (if
one year’s list starts with a female
name, the next year’s list begins with a
male one and vice versa).” — wikipedia

For example, hurricanes bob and andrew are male.

As for “women’s sports”, what about gymnastics?

]]> By: Alison http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186279 Alison Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:39:24 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186279 Yes pastel = girly, and babyish. The genderisation of pastel colours as feminine is infantilising too. Yes pastel = girly, and babyish. The genderisation of pastel colours as feminine is infantilising too.

]]> By: E http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186259 E Fri, 08 Jan 2010 07:13:24 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186259 I meant our I meant our

]]> By: E http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186258 E Fri, 08 Jan 2010 07:13:04 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186258 Ah yes, and secret, pH balanced for a woman (because or 7 is different from your 7) is baby, powdered, tarheel, or Un blue. Ah yes, and secret, pH balanced for a woman (because or 7 is different from your 7) is baby, powdered, tarheel, or Un blue.

]]> By: Katayev http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186247 Katayev Fri, 08 Jan 2010 06:41:56 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186247 There might be a gendering implication behind the darker Underarmor ad as well - you'll notice that BOTH athletic ads featuring women for some reason in the same kickboxing pose have a much darker blue than the others, and that all of the above are done in the contrast of 'tough chicks' - in other words, females with what the more pastel ads openly declare are traditionally masculine qualities - and the Underarmor one is the toughest of all. In practice it's less a fractal than a spectrum - football is manlier than swimming is manlier than figure skating; pink is girlier than pastel blue is girlier than deep blue. Given how much emphasis is placed upon the subtle emotional and symbolic coding of color combinations in graphic design, the usage of hue and tone in these contexts is anything but accidential. There might be a gendering implication behind the darker Underarmor ad as well – you’ll notice that BOTH athletic ads featuring women for some reason in the same kickboxing pose have a much darker blue than the others, and that all of the above are done in the contrast of ‘tough chicks’ – in other words, females with what the more pastel ads openly declare are traditionally masculine qualities – and the Underarmor one is the toughest of all. In practice it’s less a fractal than a spectrum – football is manlier than swimming is manlier than figure skating; pink is girlier than pastel blue is girlier than deep blue. Given how much emphasis is placed upon the subtle emotional and symbolic coding of color combinations in graphic design, the usage of hue and tone in these contexts is anything but accidential.

]]> By: Katayev http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186242 Katayev Fri, 08 Jan 2010 06:33:53 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186242 Gendering doesn't often have a whole lot to do with actual ratios of participation among the sexes. Men and women both cook and eat, but kitchenware is given a strongly gendered female treatment. Naval vessels are swarming with big muscly dudes with nary a lass in sight, but they're traditionally given female names, and the sea is always treated with female metaphors. There's more women than men in general, but in media maleness has for hundreds of years been treated as the default and femininity drawn up in contrast to it. The general arbitrariness and unfairness of gender treatments in our common culture is the main reason we discuss it so much. Gendering doesn’t often have a whole lot to do with actual ratios of participation among the sexes. Men and women both cook and eat, but kitchenware is given a strongly gendered female treatment. Naval vessels are swarming with big muscly dudes with nary a lass in sight, but they’re traditionally given female names, and the sea is always treated with female metaphors. There’s more women than men in general, but in media maleness has for hundreds of years been treated as the default and femininity drawn up in contrast to it. The general arbitrariness and unfairness of gender treatments in our common culture is the main reason we discuss it so much.

]]> By: apocalyptopia http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/01/07/the-fractal-nature-of-the-gender-binary-or-blue-vs-turquoise/comment-page-1/#comment-186235 apocalyptopia Fri, 08 Jan 2010 06:07:20 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18666#comment-186235 Pastels are "feminine". That's a pastel blue. Pastels are “feminine”. That’s a pastel blue.

]]>