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	<title>Comments on: The Primitive and the Modern in Kanye&#8217;s Love Lockdown</title>
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	<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/</link>
	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 24 May 2012 18:34:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-386327</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Oct 2010 01:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-386327</guid>
		<description>The telescope is pointed to a far away land he pines for, the furniture is covered up and monochromatic because it doesn&#039;t matter to him. His mind is full of images of the land he loves.  The modern world he lives in is superimposed on the primitive women at the end.

Cleverly written song and great video.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The telescope is pointed to a far away land he pines for, the furniture is covered up and monochromatic because it doesn&#8217;t matter to him. His mind is full of images of the land he loves.  The modern world he lives in is superimposed on the primitive women at the end.</p>
<p>Cleverly written song and great video.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-172351</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-172351</guid>
		<description>totally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>totally.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-172348</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-172348</guid>
		<description>I thought that too, initially.  Also, it is visually beautiful, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought that too, initially.  Also, it is visually beautiful, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Dominika</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-172241</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-172241</guid>
		<description>What if he&#039;s singing not about a woman but Africa?

This video is damn beautiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if he&#8217;s singing not about a woman but Africa?</p>
<p>This video is damn beautiful.</p>
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		<title>By: Restructure!</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-170613</link>
		<dc:creator>Restructure!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-170613</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The video works because Kanye’s audience recognizes the modern/primitive binary and all that it implies.  But, of course, it’s false.   Psychological research (and, as far as I can tell, all of the research on voting behavior) demonstrates again and again that rationality is not our strong point as a species.  If anything, what is modern is the inferring of rationality (hello rational choice theorists!), something that we see clearly in this video.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Actually, it&#039;s false not because &quot;rationality is not our strong point as a species&quot;, but because in Western discourse, rationality/modernity is almost always associated with white anglo cultures, and primitiveness/ancientness is almost always associated with non-white cultures. Japan&#039;s culture (Japan is a developed country and more technologically advanced than the U.S.) is still seen as having ancient/primitive aspects, while old Western/Christian superstitions about the number 13, knocking on wood, ladders, as well as those involving New Year&#039;s Day, etc. are seen as &quot;normal&quot; and part of contemporary culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The video works because Kanye’s audience recognizes the modern/primitive binary and all that it implies.  But, of course, it’s false.   Psychological research (and, as far as I can tell, all of the research on voting behavior) demonstrates again and again that rationality is not our strong point as a species.  If anything, what is modern is the inferring of rationality (hello rational choice theorists!), something that we see clearly in this video.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, it&#8217;s false not because &#8220;rationality is not our strong point as a species&#8221;, but because in Western discourse, rationality/modernity is almost always associated with white anglo cultures, and primitiveness/ancientness is almost always associated with non-white cultures. Japan&#8217;s culture (Japan is a developed country and more technologically advanced than the U.S.) is still seen as having ancient/primitive aspects, while old Western/Christian superstitions about the number 13, knocking on wood, ladders, as well as those involving New Year&#8217;s Day, etc. are seen as &#8220;normal&#8221; and part of contemporary culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Deaf Guy</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-170382</link>
		<dc:creator>Deaf Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-170382</guid>
		<description>Interesting video. 

One thing I found interesting was the transitions between the primitive and the modern - very smooth and fluid panning shots. It made a smoother, more continuous connection between the two than if it had cut from the primitive to the modern abruptly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting video. </p>
<p>One thing I found interesting was the transitions between the primitive and the modern &#8211; very smooth and fluid panning shots. It made a smoother, more continuous connection between the two than if it had cut from the primitive to the modern abruptly.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-170259</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-170259</guid>
		<description>was that a spaceship?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>was that a spaceship?</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-170144</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-170144</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a super fan of the typical female music video objectification, but I do think that there&#039;s a deeper reason for the use of the modern/primitive dichotomy.   It seems to play on stereotypes of both worlds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a super fan of the typical female music video objectification, but I do think that there&#8217;s a deeper reason for the use of the modern/primitive dichotomy.   It seems to play on stereotypes of both worlds.</p>
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		<title>By: Eneya</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-170116</link>
		<dc:creator>Eneya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-170116</guid>
		<description>the opposition religion - primitive/science - modernity is the dichotomy I was talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the opposition religion &#8211; primitive/science &#8211; modernity is the dichotomy I was talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Eneya</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-170109</link>
		<dc:creator>Eneya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-170109</guid>
		<description>I do not agree with your last example.
One - most of the terrorists (at least the popular ones) are from countries which are viewed as backwards (just check the way they are portrayed in the media - the dichotomy is in presence again) - laws against women, laws again homosexuality, as I said, most of them are from a world mostly knows as the third world countries (and this is how westerns think about them, their reasoning and their views).
Second of all - religion is viewed as something backwards too and opposing modernity. Their religious background and reasons for actions are used as a proof how backwards they are. 

Although the terrorism has much more complicated causes than just religion, it is the most obvious and easily to dismiss as emotional, interstitial and illiterate. And this is what the western world is doing.

However, I am interested why you used that particular example, not many others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not agree with your last example.<br />
One &#8211; most of the terrorists (at least the popular ones) are from countries which are viewed as backwards (just check the way they are portrayed in the media &#8211; the dichotomy is in presence again) &#8211; laws against women, laws again homosexuality, as I said, most of them are from a world mostly knows as the third world countries (and this is how westerns think about them, their reasoning and their views).<br />
Second of all &#8211; religion is viewed as something backwards too and opposing modernity. Their religious background and reasons for actions are used as a proof how backwards they are. </p>
<p>Although the terrorism has much more complicated causes than just religion, it is the most obvious and easily to dismiss as emotional, interstitial and illiterate. And this is what the western world is doing.</p>
<p>However, I am interested why you used that particular example, not many others.</p>
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		<title>By: joschmidt</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-170071</link>
		<dc:creator>joschmidt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-170071</guid>
		<description>Probably some of the stuff written about the &#039;modern primitive&#039; movement/culture would give you a good handle on the concepts. If you put &#039;modern primitive&#039; into Google.Scholar, you should find some things. The book &#039;Gone Primitive: Savage Intellects, Modern Lives&#039; by Mariana Torgovnick (1990) was my main reference point when I used these concepts in my own research (in relation to the romanticising of &#039;the primitive&#039;, not &#039;modern primitive&#039; culture), but that was some time ago - there&#039;s bound to be more up-to-date stuff out there now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably some of the stuff written about the &#8216;modern primitive&#8217; movement/culture would give you a good handle on the concepts. If you put &#8216;modern primitive&#8217; into Google.Scholar, you should find some things. The book &#8216;Gone Primitive: Savage Intellects, Modern Lives&#8217; by Mariana Torgovnick (1990) was my main reference point when I used these concepts in my own research (in relation to the romanticising of &#8216;the primitive&#8217;, not &#8216;modern primitive&#8217; culture), but that was some time ago &#8211; there&#8217;s bound to be more up-to-date stuff out there now.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-170059</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-170059</guid>
		<description>Hey, this comes from a person very ignorant on the subject, can someone provide links to some of those research the post talked about? Just because I like the subject and would love to know more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, this comes from a person very ignorant on the subject, can someone provide links to some of those research the post talked about? Just because I like the subject and would love to know more.</p>
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		<title>By: joschmidt</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-170027</link>
		<dc:creator>joschmidt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-170027</guid>
		<description>If you want to see more of that cool, slightly shaky effect he&#039;s got in there, try to find the video for a track by New Zealand artist Scribe for a song called Not Many. (It seems to have been pulled off You Tube.)
Although this is changing, NZ hip hop videos have been great for NOT having any of the standard hip hop tropes, especially not the scantily clad girls. Unfortunately, though, it&#039;s no longer the case - the new generation is right up there with the US now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to see more of that cool, slightly shaky effect he&#8217;s got in there, try to find the video for a track by New Zealand artist Scribe for a song called Not Many. (It seems to have been pulled off You Tube.)<br />
Although this is changing, NZ hip hop videos have been great for NOT having any of the standard hip hop tropes, especially not the scantily clad girls. Unfortunately, though, it&#8217;s no longer the case &#8211; the new generation is right up there with the US now.</p>
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		<title>By: Lizz</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-170015</link>
		<dc:creator>Lizz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-170015</guid>
		<description>That was my thought was my thought at the end of the video, too. Such an original music video (I at least haven&#039;t seen anything quite like that) but Kanye still managed to get all of tropes of women in music videos in there. Shot between the legs: Check. Faux-lesbianism: Check. Big, barely covered boobies: Check. Male gaze: Check. Focusing on only certain body parts/cutting off heads: Check.


I mean seriously... could&#039;ve been ground-breaking original and had females in the stomping army...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was my thought was my thought at the end of the video, too. Such an original music video (I at least haven&#8217;t seen anything quite like that) but Kanye still managed to get all of tropes of women in music videos in there. Shot between the legs: Check. Faux-lesbianism: Check. Big, barely covered boobies: Check. Male gaze: Check. Focusing on only certain body parts/cutting off heads: Check.</p>
<p>I mean seriously&#8230; could&#8217;ve been ground-breaking original and had females in the stomping army&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: joschmidt</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/17/the-primitive-and-the-modern-in-kanyes-love-lockdown/comment-page-1/#comment-169997</link>
		<dc:creator>joschmidt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=18060#comment-169997</guid>
		<description>Yep, my first thought was &#039;WTF&#039; too, as with so many contemporary music videos. But I do think there&#039;s something in the modern-primitive argument ... especially as the feminine is so clearly associated with the primitive (and a bit of faux-lesbianism thrown in for good measure).

However, I&#039;d also agree that I think West has a bit much nous to not be aware of the politics around the dichotomy ... maybe not with quite as much awareness as the above post suggests (because I&#039;d not want to be crediting Kanye West with TOO much intelligence, given his recent &#039;performances&#039;), but my reading of the video wouldn&#039;t be that &#039;rationality&#039; is the winner on the day. In fact, this video seems to very much pull on the romanticism that contemporary western culture views &#039;the primitive&#039; with, as representing &#039;our&#039; &#039;real&#039; selves/emotions/psyches/etc etc. That romantic notion would seem to be what he&#039;s drawing on here ... and my summation would be that &#039;we&#039; in the contemporary west have lost something by not being in touch with &#039;our&#039; more &#039;primitive&#039; selves. (I&#039;m open to the possibility that he&#039;s primarily addressing a black audience here, so I&#039;m not sure whether &#039;I&#039;m&#039; included in that equation or not.)

Either that, or it&#039;s just an excuse to have some pretty people wearing some cool stuff doing some funky dancing? It must be getting increasingly more difficult to make an original music video. Good work getting in the scantily clad sexy girls without actually having them in bikinis by a pool at a mansion in the Hollywood hills!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, my first thought was &#8216;WTF&#8217; too, as with so many contemporary music videos. But I do think there&#8217;s something in the modern-primitive argument &#8230; especially as the feminine is so clearly associated with the primitive (and a bit of faux-lesbianism thrown in for good measure).</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;d also agree that I think West has a bit much nous to not be aware of the politics around the dichotomy &#8230; maybe not with quite as much awareness as the above post suggests (because I&#8217;d not want to be crediting Kanye West with TOO much intelligence, given his recent &#8216;performances&#8217;), but my reading of the video wouldn&#8217;t be that &#8216;rationality&#8217; is the winner on the day. In fact, this video seems to very much pull on the romanticism that contemporary western culture views &#8216;the primitive&#8217; with, as representing &#8216;our&#8217; &#8216;real&#8217; selves/emotions/psyches/etc etc. That romantic notion would seem to be what he&#8217;s drawing on here &#8230; and my summation would be that &#8216;we&#8217; in the contemporary west have lost something by not being in touch with &#8216;our&#8217; more &#8216;primitive&#8217; selves. (I&#8217;m open to the possibility that he&#8217;s primarily addressing a black audience here, so I&#8217;m not sure whether &#8216;I&#8217;m&#8217; included in that equation or not.)</p>
<p>Either that, or it&#8217;s just an excuse to have some pretty people wearing some cool stuff doing some funky dancing? It must be getting increasingly more difficult to make an original music video. Good work getting in the scantily clad sexy girls without actually having them in bikinis by a pool at a mansion in the Hollywood hills!</p>
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