Comments on: Joblessness and the Intersection of Class and Race http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/ Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry. Thu, 24 May 2012 18:34:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Jamie http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-178739 Jamie Mon, 28 Dec 2009 06:08:34 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-178739 I don't bestow that responsibility on anyone but myself. Furthermore, no, that wasn't what I was talking about (clearly E understood that after I explained), nor was how the disparity emerges between media and studies being discussed, which is what I was addressing. I don't doubt the truth of the study, the comment said I have questions as to why media have been arguing the contrary for the past 18 months. There's no reason to attack a person for calling into question glaring differences between what we are told the majority of the time, and what is actually true. If there was a problem with that, this blog wouldn't exist. As for the whole 'educate yourself' spiel, I'll just as soon write that off as the typical reactionary public service announcement of a person who misunderstood the nature of the conversation in the first place. I don’t bestow that responsibility on anyone but myself. Furthermore, no, that wasn’t what I was talking about (clearly E understood that after I explained), nor was how the disparity emerges between media and studies being discussed, which is what I was addressing. I don’t doubt the truth of the study, the comment said I have questions as to why media have been arguing the contrary for the past 18 months.

There’s no reason to attack a person for calling into question glaring differences between what we are told the majority of the time, and what is actually true. If there was a problem with that, this blog wouldn’t exist.

As for the whole ‘educate yourself’ spiel, I’ll just as soon write that off as the typical reactionary public service announcement of a person who misunderstood the nature of the conversation in the first place.

]]> By: mkay? http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-178714 mkay? Mon, 28 Dec 2009 05:27:55 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-178714 I'm sorry, didn't E just say sociologist have written many books on this already? if you don't trust NYT word (which is true), do a 30 second google search, find a book, and read it.It really is no ones job but your own to find out the information for yourself. I’m sorry, didn’t E just say sociologist have written many books on this already? if you don’t trust NYT word (which is true), do a 30 second google search, find a book, and read it.It really is no ones job but your own to find out the information for yourself.

]]> By: octopod http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162870 octopod Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:33:50 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162870 Also, women who are laid off are more likely than men to begin describing themselves as "homemakers" rather than "unemployed". Also, women who are laid off are more likely than men to begin describing themselves as “homemakers” rather than “unemployed”.

]]> By: Jamie http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162810 Jamie Tue, 08 Dec 2009 16:23:19 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162810 I understand what you're saying. Although, I don't think I was even referring to the methods of this particular study. I was saying that I don't know what makes the studies I hear on the news differ so drastically from the studies I see presented elsewhere. I don't want to jump to a conclusion about the disparity, not the actual phenomenon itself. I may have worded it improperly, but this is what I'm saying. The news tells me I'm paid and paid well, and the studies say that's not true at all. I would love to know where the media get their numbers. That's all. I understand what you’re saying. Although, I don’t think I was even referring to the methods of this particular study. I was saying that I don’t know what makes the studies I hear on the news differ so drastically from the studies I see presented elsewhere. I don’t want to jump to a conclusion about the disparity, not the actual phenomenon itself. I may have worded it improperly, but this is what I’m saying. The news tells me I’m paid and paid well, and the studies say that’s not true at all. I would love to know where the media get their numbers. That’s all.

]]> By: E http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162779 E Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:58:48 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162779 sorry. It just makes me so mad. I could understand calling it into question so much, and picking apart the methodology, if it was a preliminary study on a topic we know little about. The fact that the NYT is even writing about this like they discovered it when sociologists have been writing about it for decades upsets me. How can this not be public knowledge? sorry. It just makes me so mad. I could understand calling it into question so much, and picking apart the methodology, if it was a preliminary study on a topic we know little about. The fact that the NYT is even writing about this like they discovered it when sociologists have been writing about it for decades upsets me. How can this not be public knowledge?

]]> By: Jamie http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162583 Jamie Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:12:28 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162583 Don't get snarky. Don’t get snarky.

]]> By: E http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162431 E Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:51:13 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162431 what bugs me is that they separated the men from the women. They really all should be on the same graph. But I promise you, if the same graphs were done using only years of education, it would look quite similar. And it isn't new to this economic crisis. what bugs me is that they separated the men from the women. They really all should be on the same graph. But I promise you, if the same graphs were done using only years of education, it would look quite similar. And it isn’t new to this economic crisis.

]]> By: E http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162430 E Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:49:48 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162430 Really??? Is this really news to you? Do you really need more data? You really haven't seen enough? Is this one article going to make it or break it for you. Is this really the only data you have seen like this? Books are published, dissertations finished on these subjects daily (well, maybe not daily for the dissertations). Granted this one article isn't very detailed. But if you are relying only on this article and don't know these things already, I have to wonder where you've been. Really??? Is this really news to you? Do you really need more data? You really haven’t seen enough? Is this one article going to make it or break it for you. Is this really the only data you have seen like this? Books are published, dissertations finished on these subjects daily (well, maybe not daily for the dissertations). Granted this one article isn’t very detailed. But if you are relying only on this article and don’t know these things already, I have to wonder where you’ve been.

]]> By: E http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162429 E Tue, 08 Dec 2009 05:44:23 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162429 They are less likely to be unemployed. But they are also more likely to be in lower paying jobs They are less likely to be unemployed. But they are also more likely to be in lower paying jobs

]]> By: Jamie http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162114 Jamie Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:05:42 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162114 Yeah, misunderstanding correlation vs causation is a huge pet peeve for me. I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, and I think more data would help a lot. Yeah, misunderstanding correlation vs causation is a huge pet peeve for me. I wouldn’t want to jump to conclusions, and I think more data would help a lot.

]]> By: md http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162112 md Mon, 07 Dec 2009 22:00:47 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162112 Just a guess... but stereotypically, woman have retail jobs and men have manufacturing jobs so as western countries outsource manufacturing overseas, we continue to consume at home? Other thought is that to be unemployed I think you have to be actively seeking work. So that means that stay-at-home mothers do not count as unemployed. I would like to see this data presented separated by state and an urban/rural break-down. The graphs above seem overly simplified - the U.S. is a big country with a lot of different types of industry. Just a guess… but stereotypically, woman have retail jobs and men have manufacturing jobs so as western countries outsource manufacturing overseas, we continue to consume at home?

Other thought is that to be unemployed I think you have to be actively seeking work. So that means that stay-at-home mothers do not count as unemployed.

I would like to see this data presented separated by state and an urban/rural break-down. The graphs above seem overly simplified – the U.S. is a big country with a lot of different types of industry.

]]> By: Kevin http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162092 Kevin Mon, 07 Dec 2009 21:35:08 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162092 Just like with no diploma vs high school diploma, there will be shrinking gaps as you go up in education level, but there are always gaps due to race. And of course 2 and 4 year degrees vastly outnumber any graduate degrees, so the effect of those degrees on the average probably isn't that big, and therefore for the most part you're not comparing an associate's degree with a master's or something like that, though you may end up comparing 2-year and 4-year degrees, which might have different job prospects. It's not unfair, it just isn't incredibly detailed. Just like with no diploma vs high school diploma, there will be shrinking gaps as you go up in education level, but there are always gaps due to race. And of course 2 and 4 year degrees vastly outnumber any graduate degrees, so the effect of those degrees on the average probably isn’t that big, and therefore for the most part you’re not comparing an associate’s degree with a master’s or something like that, though you may end up comparing 2-year and 4-year degrees, which might have different job prospects. It’s not unfair, it just isn’t incredibly detailed.

]]> By: Jamie http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162058 Jamie Mon, 07 Dec 2009 20:49:59 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162058 That's also interesting because the news has been saying constantly that women are getting and keeping jobs in this economy, while men are being laid off. That’s also interesting because the news has been saying constantly that women are getting and keeping jobs in this economy, while men are being laid off.

]]> By: christina http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-162003 christina Mon, 07 Dec 2009 19:35:53 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-162003 I think that it is also interesting that women are consistently less likely to be unemployed than men according to these stats. I think that it is also interesting that women are consistently less likely to be unemployed than men according to these stats.

]]> By: blackjoblesswoman http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/07/joblessness-and-the-intersection-of-class-and-race/comment-page-1/#comment-161901 blackjoblesswoman Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:06:19 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=17542#comment-161901 I don´t think it is fair to look at race and unemployment without considering other factors. Granted, I didn´t read the "more detailed data on this phenomenon," but these graphs make no distinctions between someone with an AA, BA, MA, AS, BS, MS, etc. Of course a black person with an AA is going to have a harder time finding a job than a white person with an MS, and that has nothing to do with race. I am not denying the fact that racism still exists in the job market, I just have a hard time drawing conclusions from the way this data is presented. I don´t think it is fair to look at race and unemployment without considering other factors. Granted, I didn´t read the “more detailed data on this phenomenon,” but these graphs make no distinctions between someone with an AA, BA, MA, AS, BS, MS, etc. Of course a black person with an AA is going to have a harder time finding a job than a white person with an MS, and that has nothing to do with race.

I am not denying the fact that racism still exists in the job market, I just have a hard time drawing conclusions from the way this data is presented.

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