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	<title>Comments on: Naturalizing Male Harassment of Women in Dance</title>
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	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
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		<title>By: Sexism In Dance &#124; Jack-Booted Liberal</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-318412</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sexism In Dance &#124; Jack-Booted Liberal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2010 06:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-318412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] going back to the times when dance would come up in discussions on sociological blogs I read (like this one). So many of the commenters seemed to have a blind spot to sexism where dance was concerned. With [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] going back to the times when dance would come up in discussions on sociological blogs I read (like this one). So many of the commenters seemed to have a blind spot to sexism where dance was concerned. With [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Emilia</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-219856</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Emilia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 04:25:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-219856</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While watching this dance, what really stood out to me was the acrobatics, and the comfort the two dancers appeared to have with each other. The female dancer obviously trusted her partner to catch her numerous times, and let no harm come to her in the tricky and potentially dangerous sequences. That feeling of trust between two professionals came across more to me than the drama of the dance. I watched it a second time, looking for sexism, and I can sort of see how some might interpret it that way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While watching this dance, what really stood out to me was the acrobatics, and the comfort the two dancers appeared to have with each other. The female dancer obviously trusted her partner to catch her numerous times, and let no harm come to her in the tricky and potentially dangerous sequences. That feeling of trust between two professionals came across more to me than the drama of the dance. I watched it a second time, looking for sexism, and I can sort of see how some might interpret it that way.</p>
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		<title>By: MTV worries me&#8230; part 4; Making Street Harassment &#8216;Sexy&#8217; &#171; Uplift Magazine</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-168285</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MTV worries me&#8230; part 4; Making Street Harassment &#8216;Sexy&#8217; &#171; Uplift Magazine]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-168285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the owners of breasts/legs) just so that they can attract attention because, inevitably, they enjoy rebuking the advances of enamoured men. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] the owners of breasts/legs) just so that they can attract attention because, inevitably, they enjoy rebuking the advances of enamoured men. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-162873</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joshua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-162873</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;When you’re at a ballroom competition, it’s socially acceptable to ‘flaunt’ your sexuality, dress up in ridiculously skimpy outfits, and so on, yet nobody expects you to actually be that sexual once you’re off the dance floor.&lt;/i&gt;

Several people have pointed out that women dressing in revealing clothes is just a part of dance culture, as if that somehow reduces its potentially sexist nature. Sexism is a part of our culture, so pointing to something as, &quot;just the way its done in that area,&quot; hardly makes it not sexist.

If the way that women dress in ballroom isn&#039;t sexist, then why is it that women are the ones who dress very revealingly and men are usually fully-clothed?

&lt;i&gt;In other words, girls can just...&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, and let&#039;s not get started on calling full-grown women &quot;girls&quot;. ;-)  Hey, there&#039;s another sexist thing that&#039;s just &quot;done&quot; in our culture. Oh, but nobody expects women to ACTUALLY behave like children, so it must be okay. Except we all know that&#039;s not entirely true. There are ways in which society infantilizes women, and calling them &quot;girls&quot; is a reflection of that. There are ways in which society views women as sex-objects, and the way they dress in ballroom dancing reflects that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>When you’re at a ballroom competition, it’s socially acceptable to ‘flaunt’ your sexuality, dress up in ridiculously skimpy outfits, and so on, yet nobody expects you to actually be that sexual once you’re off the dance floor.</i></p>
<p>Several people have pointed out that women dressing in revealing clothes is just a part of dance culture, as if that somehow reduces its potentially sexist nature. Sexism is a part of our culture, so pointing to something as, &#8220;just the way its done in that area,&#8221; hardly makes it not sexist.</p>
<p>If the way that women dress in ballroom isn&#8217;t sexist, then why is it that women are the ones who dress very revealingly and men are usually fully-clothed?</p>
<p><i>In other words, girls can just&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Oh, and let&#8217;s not get started on calling full-grown women &#8220;girls&#8221;. ;-)  Hey, there&#8217;s another sexist thing that&#8217;s just &#8220;done&#8221; in our culture. Oh, but nobody expects women to ACTUALLY behave like children, so it must be okay. Except we all know that&#8217;s not entirely true. There are ways in which society infantilizes women, and calling them &#8220;girls&#8221; is a reflection of that. There are ways in which society views women as sex-objects, and the way they dress in ballroom dancing reflects that.</p>
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		<title>By: Freya</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-162858</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Freya]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-162858</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As someone who&#039;s been in numerous female-female partnerships for collegiate dance competitions, usually there are a couple factors: 
-If there&#039;s a significant height difference, the taller person leads, otherwise turns and such are just too difficult.
-If there&#039;s not a huge height difference, the better dancer is the follower, cause they&#039;ve got more complex moves.
-If one person has a really bad sense of rhythm, they follow, regardless of what the preceeding two guidelines might suggest. 

Now, same-gender couples usually only happen at collegiate competitions and there sometimes they&#039;re only allowed below a certain level. Interestingly, at the lower levels girls tend to be better dancers than guys, so sometimes you&#039;ll see girl-girl couples winning more stuff than mixed-gender couples - and this isn&#039;t just in the midwest, I&#039;ve seen it in other places and even at the national competition in Ohio.

As far as the &#039;dynamic&#039;, at these levels there&#039;s almost no difference between &#039;male&#039; and &#039;female&#039; dance styles. The same motions and general &#039;rules&#039; apply to both genders/roles for each dance. There&#039;s a bit of a difference in the smooth/standard roles cause the leaders go forward and followers go back, but in the latin/rhythm dances both roles are doing the exact same basic steps, only they start on opposite feet and in opposite directions. The only differences are in the costume because the woman&#039;s is meant to showcase her body, and sometimes in the hand placement/motions on the partners&#039; bodies. If you have the chance to go to a collegiate competition, watch the girl-girl couples (or the rare guy-guy couple) and you&#039;ll see this - more often than not, the girl in the lead will be wearing &#039;sexy&#039; clothes and looking just as &#039;hot&#039; as her partner, since the &#039;lead&#039; role is so similar to the &#039;follower&#039; role. 

Incidentally, everyone&#039;s wondering about the objectification of women and the costumes, so let me throw in my two cents: When you&#039;re at a ballroom competition, it&#039;s socially acceptable to &#039;flaunt&#039; your sexuality, dress up in ridiculously skimpy outfits, and so on, yet nobody expects you to actually be that sexual once you&#039;re off the dance floor. In other words, girls can just express their sexuality to their heart&#039;s content in a completely safe, fun, and socially acceptable way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who&#8217;s been in numerous female-female partnerships for collegiate dance competitions, usually there are a couple factors:<br />
-If there&#8217;s a significant height difference, the taller person leads, otherwise turns and such are just too difficult.<br />
-If there&#8217;s not a huge height difference, the better dancer is the follower, cause they&#8217;ve got more complex moves.<br />
-If one person has a really bad sense of rhythm, they follow, regardless of what the preceeding two guidelines might suggest. </p>
<p>Now, same-gender couples usually only happen at collegiate competitions and there sometimes they&#8217;re only allowed below a certain level. Interestingly, at the lower levels girls tend to be better dancers than guys, so sometimes you&#8217;ll see girl-girl couples winning more stuff than mixed-gender couples &#8211; and this isn&#8217;t just in the midwest, I&#8217;ve seen it in other places and even at the national competition in Ohio.</p>
<p>As far as the &#8216;dynamic&#8217;, at these levels there&#8217;s almost no difference between &#8216;male&#8217; and &#8216;female&#8217; dance styles. The same motions and general &#8216;rules&#8217; apply to both genders/roles for each dance. There&#8217;s a bit of a difference in the smooth/standard roles cause the leaders go forward and followers go back, but in the latin/rhythm dances both roles are doing the exact same basic steps, only they start on opposite feet and in opposite directions. The only differences are in the costume because the woman&#8217;s is meant to showcase her body, and sometimes in the hand placement/motions on the partners&#8217; bodies. If you have the chance to go to a collegiate competition, watch the girl-girl couples (or the rare guy-guy couple) and you&#8217;ll see this &#8211; more often than not, the girl in the lead will be wearing &#8216;sexy&#8217; clothes and looking just as &#8216;hot&#8217; as her partner, since the &#8216;lead&#8217; role is so similar to the &#8216;follower&#8217; role. </p>
<p>Incidentally, everyone&#8217;s wondering about the objectification of women and the costumes, so let me throw in my two cents: When you&#8217;re at a ballroom competition, it&#8217;s socially acceptable to &#8216;flaunt&#8217; your sexuality, dress up in ridiculously skimpy outfits, and so on, yet nobody expects you to actually be that sexual once you&#8217;re off the dance floor. In other words, girls can just express their sexuality to their heart&#8217;s content in a completely safe, fun, and socially acceptable way.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-161109</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 20:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-161109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[KD - 
Great article to check out about the feminist argument in favor of pornography (it offers a well-argued perspective without going to extremes): &quot;Feminists Should Work to Protect Pornography&quot; by Wendy McElroy. It&#039;s on most academic library databases, if you can get access (I unfortunately can&#039;t provide a link because my academic library is only available to paying students =[  )]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KD &#8211;<br />
Great article to check out about the feminist argument in favor of pornography (it offers a well-argued perspective without going to extremes): &#8220;Feminists Should Work to Protect Pornography&#8221; by Wendy McElroy. It&#8217;s on most academic library databases, if you can get access (I unfortunately can&#8217;t provide a link because my academic library is only available to paying students =[  )</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-157720</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-157720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would like to point out that if one watches this just as a dance piece and not as a social commentary - it is beautifully choreographed and performed dance. Just wanted to add that into all of this wonderful discussion on the implications of the piece! :D]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to point out that if one watches this just as a dance piece and not as a social commentary &#8211; it is beautifully choreographed and performed dance. Just wanted to add that into all of this wonderful discussion on the implications of the piece! :D</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-157718</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-157718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, don&#039;t the males usually do the &quot;tricks&quot;? Male peacocks are the ones with fancy feathers, after all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, don&#8217;t the males usually do the &#8220;tricks&#8221;? Male peacocks are the ones with fancy feathers, after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-157717</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-157717</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, it&#039;s a pretty awkward title to me - it might be the title of the song that&#039;s playing, though; a lot of time dances are simply titled after the song that is being danced to.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s a pretty awkward title to me &#8211; it might be the title of the song that&#8217;s playing, though; a lot of time dances are simply titled after the song that is being danced to.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-157710</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-157710</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d like to point out that I watched the male-partnered men dancing on SYTYCD, and while Nigel L. obviously didn&#039;t think through his comments that well - the guys who were dancing were not that great at what they were doing, and their choreography was pretty poor during their auditions. I was surprised at the backlash for the &quot;homophobic&quot; nature of his comments - I feel like he was trying to tell these guys that ballroom is not the forum for male/male dance, *because* male ballroom dance steps lean so heavily toward the guy being a prop - there just isn&#039;t as much showoffy stuff for the guy to do. Ballroom is well-aimed at having one partner be a stable center, and the other being flashy and moving around that stable center. Unless these men choreographed their dance with &quot;traditional&quot; dancing roles (which would then lead to them being accused of reinforcing the sexism that is being discussed in this thread), they would end up with two flashy dancers or two stable centers - both of which lead to an unbalanced dance.
Basically, I feel like contemporary or jazz would be a better forum for them to explore their idea, which is not in and of itself objectionable. Their execution was just not the best, and I feel like the right choice was made in not putting them on the show.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to point out that I watched the male-partnered men dancing on SYTYCD, and while Nigel L. obviously didn&#8217;t think through his comments that well &#8211; the guys who were dancing were not that great at what they were doing, and their choreography was pretty poor during their auditions. I was surprised at the backlash for the &#8220;homophobic&#8221; nature of his comments &#8211; I feel like he was trying to tell these guys that ballroom is not the forum for male/male dance, *because* male ballroom dance steps lean so heavily toward the guy being a prop &#8211; there just isn&#8217;t as much showoffy stuff for the guy to do. Ballroom is well-aimed at having one partner be a stable center, and the other being flashy and moving around that stable center. Unless these men choreographed their dance with &#8220;traditional&#8221; dancing roles (which would then lead to them being accused of reinforcing the sexism that is being discussed in this thread), they would end up with two flashy dancers or two stable centers &#8211; both of which lead to an unbalanced dance.<br />
Basically, I feel like contemporary or jazz would be a better forum for them to explore their idea, which is not in and of itself objectionable. Their execution was just not the best, and I feel like the right choice was made in not putting them on the show.</p>
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		<title>By: JacquelineRussel</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-157689</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JacquelineRussel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 23:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-157689</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I remember participating in a folk dance (scottish, I think) where men and women were partnered up and the women spent the dance switching back and forth between the men; however, the narrative context was that the men were fighting over her, and every time she made to leave the circle, another man would catch her up in the dance. Really creepy if you think about it. Fortunately we didn’t actually partner up male/female and the context was explained later on so that it was just a dance while we were doing it.&quot;

Huh. A folk dance I was taught had the same swapping of partners in it; however, with us it was explained in different terms. Dances played a big part in social occasions, and part of their allure was the sexual tension that they played with. Assuming that you are partnered with someone who is of romantic/sexual interest to you, these dances are very exciting. The dance enables you to get close enough to your partner to touch them, but any contact follows strict rules, making it a safe environment. You swap partners as you go, but the idea is that your initial partner is the focus of your attention, and there is a build up of tension and excitement as they get closer, until you meet up again and get a chance to touch- but just before you&#039;re able to get comfortable,they&#039;re whisked away again. It&#039;s a cycle of raising and lowering of tensions.
The dance plays on the hyperawareness felt by young adults, particularly around romantic interests (crushes), and provided young people with a chance to explore their sexuality in a socially acceptable and very safe environment (there wouldn&#039;t be many other times when fathers would consent to letting a man that close to their daughter)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I remember participating in a folk dance (scottish, I think) where men and women were partnered up and the women spent the dance switching back and forth between the men; however, the narrative context was that the men were fighting over her, and every time she made to leave the circle, another man would catch her up in the dance. Really creepy if you think about it. Fortunately we didn’t actually partner up male/female and the context was explained later on so that it was just a dance while we were doing it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Huh. A folk dance I was taught had the same swapping of partners in it; however, with us it was explained in different terms. Dances played a big part in social occasions, and part of their allure was the sexual tension that they played with. Assuming that you are partnered with someone who is of romantic/sexual interest to you, these dances are very exciting. The dance enables you to get close enough to your partner to touch them, but any contact follows strict rules, making it a safe environment. You swap partners as you go, but the idea is that your initial partner is the focus of your attention, and there is a build up of tension and excitement as they get closer, until you meet up again and get a chance to touch- but just before you&#8217;re able to get comfortable,they&#8217;re whisked away again. It&#8217;s a cycle of raising and lowering of tensions.<br />
The dance plays on the hyperawareness felt by young adults, particularly around romantic interests (crushes), and provided young people with a chance to explore their sexuality in a socially acceptable and very safe environment (there wouldn&#8217;t be many other times when fathers would consent to letting a man that close to their daughter)</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-157640</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-157640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[KD-
Thank you for an extremely well thought out and informative response! Holy cow.
I really appreciate that angle on the art - the voyeuristic v. confrontational angle. While I don&#039;t feel like that&#039;s necessarily a universal rule, it certainly changes my perspective. When looking at the coy aesthetic favored in a lot of historical nudes, it becomes a little difficult to discern the personal aesthetic.

Regarding the sex workers being in power or out of power - I guess it really depends on what era, what area, etc. you&#039;re looking at, and I see your point on all angles there. One thing that I think we should all be able to agree on is forced sex labor - which, thank goodness, is being pulled more into the public eye as something that has to be stopped. Women who choose to become sex workers, on the other hand, are something of a conundrum to me, from a feminist perspective. Of course it&#039;s a woman&#039;s choice to do what she wants to do with her body, but what drives a woman to make that particular choice? 
I would imagine that there is no universal answer to that question.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KD-<br />
Thank you for an extremely well thought out and informative response! Holy cow.<br />
I really appreciate that angle on the art &#8211; the voyeuristic v. confrontational angle. While I don&#8217;t feel like that&#8217;s necessarily a universal rule, it certainly changes my perspective. When looking at the coy aesthetic favored in a lot of historical nudes, it becomes a little difficult to discern the personal aesthetic.</p>
<p>Regarding the sex workers being in power or out of power &#8211; I guess it really depends on what era, what area, etc. you&#8217;re looking at, and I see your point on all angles there. One thing that I think we should all be able to agree on is forced sex labor &#8211; which, thank goodness, is being pulled more into the public eye as something that has to be stopped. Women who choose to become sex workers, on the other hand, are something of a conundrum to me, from a feminist perspective. Of course it&#8217;s a woman&#8217;s choice to do what she wants to do with her body, but what drives a woman to make that particular choice?<br />
I would imagine that there is no universal answer to that question.</p>
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		<title>By: KD</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-157609</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[KD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-157609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sarah: 

My definition of pornography is less about nudity, or even eroticism, and more about those two in conjunction with the portrayal of the subject as an object. Most classic male nudes glorify the beauty of masculinity, but place the figure in an active role that defines his status as subject - be it a hero, a god, a martyr, or so on. Classic female nudes, on the other hand, are nearly always in a passive role that exposes their body almost incidentally, such as bathing, or luxuriously reclining on a bed of silks in a bedroom style setting. Edward Lucie-Smith, an art historian, points out that these women&#039;s faces are usually turned away from the viewer, because the paintings were intended to be voyeuristic, not confrontational, and many such female nudes were created as a direct response to commercial demands for eroticism. With that definition in mind, I would personally consider the many classic portrayals of Bathsheba as essentially pornographic, while the nudes of an artist like Gustave Klimt, while highly erotically charged and in various states of undress, retain a decidedly personal and active presence that make them only unabashedly erotic. I love anatomy and nudes, and without thinking much about it assumed that most classic nudes were about the anatomy, until I read Lucie-Smith say that, yes, they are very much what they appear to be, which is the admiration of beauty objects. Looking at them again, and how the nudes were gendered, I couldn&#039;t disagree. (This isn&#039;t to say that men as beauty objects don&#039;t exist in classic art.)

I&#039;ve never seen evidence to suggest that sex workers have ever been in any significant position of power. I recall a few rare incidents, such as a favored concubine&#039;s sons being chosen to inherit a kingdom, but by and large I don&#039;t think sex has ever been the powerful bargaining chip it is now portrayed as. One of the major problems with sex work, after all, is that it goes hand in hand with the attitudes that one&#039;s body has little value, can be substituted easily, and taken by force, if desired, with no legal repercussion.

The line between objectification and sexual freedom is pretty blurry, isn&#039;t it? I don&#039;t think it needs to be, but in this society, it can&#039;t be helped. It&#039;s hard to believe that so many women would choose to go into sex work if they had better options, but at the same time, you can&#039;t turn them into a victim, as you say. Personally, I try to support women&#039;s actions while decreasing the inequality that leads to the degradation inherent in such practices. It&#039;s a good question you raise about the liberation movement, and I wish I knew the answer. It&#039;ll be on my mind. If the sexual liberation of women contributed to the pornification of society or not, though, the one thing I am certain of is that it&#039;s been hegemonic masculinity that&#039;s defined the direction of that pornography. Men have been sexually liberated all this time, and we don&#039;t see them up for display nearly as often.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah: </p>
<p>My definition of pornography is less about nudity, or even eroticism, and more about those two in conjunction with the portrayal of the subject as an object. Most classic male nudes glorify the beauty of masculinity, but place the figure in an active role that defines his status as subject &#8211; be it a hero, a god, a martyr, or so on. Classic female nudes, on the other hand, are nearly always in a passive role that exposes their body almost incidentally, such as bathing, or luxuriously reclining on a bed of silks in a bedroom style setting. Edward Lucie-Smith, an art historian, points out that these women&#8217;s faces are usually turned away from the viewer, because the paintings were intended to be voyeuristic, not confrontational, and many such female nudes were created as a direct response to commercial demands for eroticism. With that definition in mind, I would personally consider the many classic portrayals of Bathsheba as essentially pornographic, while the nudes of an artist like Gustave Klimt, while highly erotically charged and in various states of undress, retain a decidedly personal and active presence that make them only unabashedly erotic. I love anatomy and nudes, and without thinking much about it assumed that most classic nudes were about the anatomy, until I read Lucie-Smith say that, yes, they are very much what they appear to be, which is the admiration of beauty objects. Looking at them again, and how the nudes were gendered, I couldn&#8217;t disagree. (This isn&#8217;t to say that men as beauty objects don&#8217;t exist in classic art.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never seen evidence to suggest that sex workers have ever been in any significant position of power. I recall a few rare incidents, such as a favored concubine&#8217;s sons being chosen to inherit a kingdom, but by and large I don&#8217;t think sex has ever been the powerful bargaining chip it is now portrayed as. One of the major problems with sex work, after all, is that it goes hand in hand with the attitudes that one&#8217;s body has little value, can be substituted easily, and taken by force, if desired, with no legal repercussion.</p>
<p>The line between objectification and sexual freedom is pretty blurry, isn&#8217;t it? I don&#8217;t think it needs to be, but in this society, it can&#8217;t be helped. It&#8217;s hard to believe that so many women would choose to go into sex work if they had better options, but at the same time, you can&#8217;t turn them into a victim, as you say. Personally, I try to support women&#8217;s actions while decreasing the inequality that leads to the degradation inherent in such practices. It&#8217;s a good question you raise about the liberation movement, and I wish I knew the answer. It&#8217;ll be on my mind. If the sexual liberation of women contributed to the pornification of society or not, though, the one thing I am certain of is that it&#8217;s been hegemonic masculinity that&#8217;s defined the direction of that pornography. Men have been sexually liberated all this time, and we don&#8217;t see them up for display nearly as often.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-157607</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joshua]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-157607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Given the variety of sexual behavior in nature, I think this statement can hardly be taken as universal. Even if it&#039;s true, humans have the ability, and in my opinion, the obligation, to think about, and, if necessary, modify the behavior that is suggested by their biological programming. Therefore, even if sexism is biologically innate (and I think there&#039;s evidence that it is), that doesn&#039;t get us off the &quot;hook&quot; to resist it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the variety of sexual behavior in nature, I think this statement can hardly be taken as universal. Even if it&#8217;s true, humans have the ability, and in my opinion, the obligation, to think about, and, if necessary, modify the behavior that is suggested by their biological programming. Therefore, even if sexism is biologically innate (and I think there&#8217;s evidence that it is), that doesn&#8217;t get us off the &#8220;hook&#8221; to resist it.</p>
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		<title>By: hemaworst</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/30/naturalizing-male-harassment-of-women-in-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-157605</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hemaworst]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:39:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=13982#comment-157605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am a farmer, in nature the female needs to do the tricks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a farmer, in nature the female needs to do the tricks.</p>
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