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	<title>Comments on: Outsourcing Art</title>
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	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
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		<title>By: karinova</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-149127</link>
		<dc:creator>karinova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 05:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-149127</guid>
		<description>Hoooly...!
Wow. Respect to &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;you!&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

As a desk jockey, I am in awe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hoooly&#8230;!<br />
Wow. Respect to <i><b>you!</b></i></p>
<p>As a desk jockey, I am in awe.</p>
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		<title>By: JG Smith</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-143064</link>
		<dc:creator>JG Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-143064</guid>
		<description>&quot;They aren&#039;t artists who are free to paint what ever moves them, they paint what they are told to paint.&quot; 

Welcome to the world of commercial art, graphic art, and production art. I have a degree in production art and a BA in fine art--guess which one put food on the table?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They aren&#8217;t artists who are free to paint what ever moves them, they paint what they are told to paint.&#8221; </p>
<p>Welcome to the world of commercial art, graphic art, and production art. I have a degree in production art and a BA in fine art&#8211;guess which one put food on the table?</p>
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		<title>By: outsourcing art &#124; chan.V</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-141230</link>
		<dc:creator>outsourcing art &#124; chan.V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-141230</guid>
		<description>[...] from sociological images: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] from sociological images: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Claudia</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-140461</link>
		<dc:creator>Claudia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-140461</guid>
		<description>Thank you Elena, that is exactly my point. Somehow, if we consider the art product in art history, this is just another (sad) brick in the wall.

And thank you Anon, I hadn&#039;t noticed that this &quot;art is being sold as real not as reproduced&quot;. I thought it was being sold as what it is and not under false pretences. I guess this subject raises an interesting question on what is real art, and what is not. Because it&#039;s definition has had a huge transformation in the last century, and I believe it will be redefined in the one to come.

And I do spend most of my time paying attention to the art market, it fascinates me and it makes my living. I didn&#039;t know &quot;green washing&quot; existed as a concept, since I can&#039;t translate it into spanish. I&#039;ll look for more examples on this. Thank you very much for your insight :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Elena, that is exactly my point. Somehow, if we consider the art product in art history, this is just another (sad) brick in the wall.</p>
<p>And thank you Anon, I hadn&#8217;t noticed that this &#8220;art is being sold as real not as reproduced&#8221;. I thought it was being sold as what it is and not under false pretences. I guess this subject raises an interesting question on what is real art, and what is not. Because it&#8217;s definition has had a huge transformation in the last century, and I believe it will be redefined in the one to come.</p>
<p>And I do spend most of my time paying attention to the art market, it fascinates me and it makes my living. I didn&#8217;t know &#8220;green washing&#8221; existed as a concept, since I can&#8217;t translate it into spanish. I&#8217;ll look for more examples on this. Thank you very much for your insight :)</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-140233</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-140233</guid>
		<description>This does not affect me anymore than any other slave work affects me, thus I feel obligated to do my part to stand up for my rights and the rights of people whose rights may be compromised.

To me, it is newsworthy because it is an example of &quot;art washing&quot;, like &quot;green washing&quot;. If someone who previously didn&#039;t recognize it in one area recognizes it in another action is being taken. 

In the everyday world this art is being sold as real not as reproduced. If someone would like to have a second rate reproduction (not that these artists aren&#039;t skilled but this form of reproduction does not pass on the original artists merit in ways other forms of reproduction (etching, litho, woodblock, even serigraph) do more effectively) for their wall that is of course their decision but that reproduction needs to be shown for all that it represents.

And yes, I agree, this deserves no more attention than anything else, if at all. The time being spent on this subject could be better spend elsewhere. 

If the Reproduction sells... if the documentary sells... if the article gets viewers...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This does not affect me anymore than any other slave work affects me, thus I feel obligated to do my part to stand up for my rights and the rights of people whose rights may be compromised.</p>
<p>To me, it is newsworthy because it is an example of &#8220;art washing&#8221;, like &#8220;green washing&#8221;. If someone who previously didn&#8217;t recognize it in one area recognizes it in another action is being taken. </p>
<p>In the everyday world this art is being sold as real not as reproduced. If someone would like to have a second rate reproduction (not that these artists aren&#8217;t skilled but this form of reproduction does not pass on the original artists merit in ways other forms of reproduction (etching, litho, woodblock, even serigraph) do more effectively) for their wall that is of course their decision but that reproduction needs to be shown for all that it represents.</p>
<p>And yes, I agree, this deserves no more attention than anything else, if at all. The time being spent on this subject could be better spend elsewhere. </p>
<p>If the Reproduction sells&#8230; if the documentary sells&#8230; if the article gets viewers&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Elena</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-140230</link>
		<dc:creator>Elena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-140230</guid>
		<description>So what do you think of the painting workshops of, say, the Renaissance? This is not so different from the workshops that would churn madonnas after madonnas (or plump nymphs after plump nymphs) for the homes of the merchant class.

If you ever visit the Prado in Spain, we&#039;ve got IIRC half a dozen more or less similarly posed Venuses by Titian. And this was Titian, painting variations on the same theme of Naked Mythological Women for Philip II...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what do you think of the painting workshops of, say, the Renaissance? This is not so different from the workshops that would churn madonnas after madonnas (or plump nymphs after plump nymphs) for the homes of the merchant class.</p>
<p>If you ever visit the Prado in Spain, we&#8217;ve got IIRC half a dozen more or less similarly posed Venuses by Titian. And this was Titian, painting variations on the same theme of Naked Mythological Women for Philip II&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Claudia</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-140186</link>
		<dc:creator>Claudia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-140186</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m only comparing art market history through the times, that&#039;s it. 
And art history does make a difference to me; it&#039;s just that I don&#039;t feel outraged by this fact (chinese skilled artists producing images), any more than slave work anywhere in the planet. Slave work is infuriating - but not surprising; the fact that art is also part of the same system is an added symptom, not news. 

So I&#039;m only commenting to learn how you, whom I regard as pretty knowledgable people, read this fact.
Is this any more newsworthy because this is art&#039;s aura? Is that what affects you? Because as I stated in my previous post, that&#039;s the way it&#039;s always been. 

Best, Clau</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m only comparing art market history through the times, that&#8217;s it.<br />
And art history does make a difference to me; it&#8217;s just that I don&#8217;t feel outraged by this fact (chinese skilled artists producing images), any more than slave work anywhere in the planet. Slave work is infuriating &#8211; but not surprising; the fact that art is also part of the same system is an added symptom, not news. </p>
<p>So I&#8217;m only commenting to learn how you, whom I regard as pretty knowledgable people, read this fact.<br />
Is this any more newsworthy because this is art&#8217;s aura? Is that what affects you? Because as I stated in my previous post, that&#8217;s the way it&#8217;s always been. </p>
<p>Best, Clau</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-140170</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-140170</guid>
		<description>No drama, no surprise. 
If it has happened before it will happen again. 
Nothing is new on this earth. 
Historically it is common to beat a spouse. Your right, i think I shall do so tonight. It has happened before and it will happen again. 
What difference is it to The World c. 2009.
What difference is it to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No drama, no surprise.<br />
If it has happened before it will happen again.<br />
Nothing is new on this earth.<br />
Historically it is common to beat a spouse. Your right, i think I shall do so tonight. It has happened before and it will happen again.<br />
What difference is it to The World c. 2009.<br />
What difference is it to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Claudia</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-140128</link>
		<dc:creator>Claudia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-140128</guid>
		<description>I afraid I don&#039;t see why this is worth any (any) debate, whatsoever. 
What do you think it was like for natives in Perú or México in the 1700-1800? 
What do you think it was like in Florence 1400? 
What do you think it was like in Mesopotamia? 
What do you think it was like in 1850 Europe?
What do you think it was like for hmmm, Warhol (whose studio was named &quot;The Factory&quot;?

There have always been art factories. And there have always been few talented, original, authentic and valued artists.

Please someone tell why all the drama and surprise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I afraid I don&#8217;t see why this is worth any (any) debate, whatsoever.<br />
What do you think it was like for natives in Perú or México in the 1700-1800?<br />
What do you think it was like in Florence 1400?<br />
What do you think it was like in Mesopotamia?<br />
What do you think it was like in 1850 Europe?<br />
What do you think it was like for hmmm, Warhol (whose studio was named &#8220;The Factory&#8221;?</p>
<p>There have always been art factories. And there have always been few talented, original, authentic and valued artists.</p>
<p>Please someone tell why all the drama and surprise.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-139654</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-139654</guid>
		<description>maybe people could stop buying bad art.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>maybe people could stop buying bad art.</p>
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		<title>By: KD</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-139612</link>
		<dc:creator>KD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-139612</guid>
		<description>Definitely. It&#039;s a faux-pas in the art world to mistake technical proficiency for talent. You can have a talent for technical proficiency, but it&#039;s a learned skill.

It strikes me as both sad and amusing that these factory workers are more technically proficient than maybe 95% of the art students at the universities I&#039;ve attended. Sure, they look like the soulless imitations of imitations that they are, but I can&#039;t help but wonder if western universities could learn something from them. It might shock a lot of art students to learn that they should be able to do this, and, in my opinion, need to. Creativity is necessary, but we place too much emphasis on it and mystify what these workers are proving is a skill. I think that&#039;s why this article is so fascinating, in the first place. We imagine painting as something complicated and beyond the grasp of the &quot;untalented,&quot; and it&#039;s a fun kick in the face to learn that it isn&#039;t true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely. It&#8217;s a faux-pas in the art world to mistake technical proficiency for talent. You can have a talent for technical proficiency, but it&#8217;s a learned skill.</p>
<p>It strikes me as both sad and amusing that these factory workers are more technically proficient than maybe 95% of the art students at the universities I&#8217;ve attended. Sure, they look like the soulless imitations of imitations that they are, but I can&#8217;t help but wonder if western universities could learn something from them. It might shock a lot of art students to learn that they should be able to do this, and, in my opinion, need to. Creativity is necessary, but we place too much emphasis on it and mystify what these workers are proving is a skill. I think that&#8217;s why this article is so fascinating, in the first place. We imagine painting as something complicated and beyond the grasp of the &#8220;untalented,&#8221; and it&#8217;s a fun kick in the face to learn that it isn&#8217;t true.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-139611</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-139611</guid>
		<description>These paintings are eerie. In my job I run across them often. They are like people without souls. Zombie Art.

It is a shame that this act is promoted as acceptable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These paintings are eerie. In my job I run across them often. They are like people without souls. Zombie Art.</p>
<p>It is a shame that this act is promoted as acceptable.</p>
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		<title>By: Other Kelly</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-139598</link>
		<dc:creator>Other Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-139598</guid>
		<description>As an artist/illustrator, I don&#039;t believe in the myth of talent.  Creating images is a learned skill that takes years of hard work and practice, and I think calling someone &#039;talented&#039; is dismissive of all of the hard work they&#039;ve done.  I&#039;ve often seen the idea of talent used to justify paying artists or illustrators less because &quot;if they are talented, it must have just been soooo easy to make that image.&quot;

Anyway, copying images the way these artists do is a relatively straightforward process.  They are very skilled craftsmen/women, but they are basically performing the job of a highly advanced Photoshop filter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an artist/illustrator, I don&#8217;t believe in the myth of talent.  Creating images is a learned skill that takes years of hard work and practice, and I think calling someone &#8216;talented&#8217; is dismissive of all of the hard work they&#8217;ve done.  I&#8217;ve often seen the idea of talent used to justify paying artists or illustrators less because &#8220;if they are talented, it must have just been soooo easy to make that image.&#8221;</p>
<p>Anyway, copying images the way these artists do is a relatively straightforward process.  They are very skilled craftsmen/women, but they are basically performing the job of a highly advanced Photoshop filter.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-139551</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-139551</guid>
		<description>It still requires talent to paint reproductions. Many people say they&#039;re not talented at something when that&#039;s objectively not true.

Enjoying the work has nothing to do with whether or not one is talented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It still requires talent to paint reproductions. Many people say they&#8217;re not talented at something when that&#8217;s objectively not true.</p>
<p>Enjoying the work has nothing to do with whether or not one is talented.</p>
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		<title>By: Gene</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/09/outsourcing-art/comment-page-1/#comment-139494</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=14847#comment-139494</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s important that these paintings answer the function of art as well as paintings made by local artists working in different conditions. I don&#039;t think that something has to be self-expression in order to be art. A tattoo is art, even if it&#039;s more what the wearer wants than what the artist wants. A Renaissance painting is art, even if it was created under strict limitations from the wealthy patron or the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s important that these paintings answer the function of art as well as paintings made by local artists working in different conditions. I don&#8217;t think that something has to be self-expression in order to be art. A tattoo is art, even if it&#8217;s more what the wearer wants than what the artist wants. A Renaissance painting is art, even if it was created under strict limitations from the wealthy patron or the church.</p>
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