Comments on: When “Woman” Means “Short”

By: A Fresh Example of Ergonomics: When ‘Woman’ Means … « Real World Design

Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:19:00 +0000

[...] – Post on the ergonomics of motorcycles and the dangers of user stereotyping http://is.gd/3KwjK [...]

By: Lily

Lily — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:42:05 +0000

You know, I’ve gotta say, I do consider myself a feminist. But when it comes to matters like this, I think cutting these companies some slack is a fair response. One thing I’ve kept from my high school anatomy class is knowledge of bone growth. The reason women are shorter than men – and it’s the majority, not just an average – is because high amounts of estrogen stunt bone growth. Thus, when puberty occurs, we essentially stop growing. And during menopause, we often shrink, or develop osteoporosis.

In the case of calling a shorter bicycle a ladies’ bike, I see no issue. If we were to talk about how this affects the MEN that have to buy that size, then there’s something worth discussion!

By: Phoebe

Phoebe — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:15:45 +0000

I just wanted to say thanks for posting my little observation, and I’m glad it sparked some discussion!

I’m an avid motorcyclist, and I can tell you that sexism and bigotry (especially homophobia) is alive and well in many facets of motorcycle culture, the least of which comes from manufacturers.

And yes, we say “inseam” to mean “leg length”. If I had to guess why, I would say that if you know you have a 30″ inseam, and the bike you’re interested in also has a 30″ seat height, then you know that you will most likely be able to fit on it and still touch the ground with your feet.

By: sonicdeluxe

sonicdeluxe — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:53:19 +0000

Maybe they should call it something other than a ladies seat but I am sure that it was designed to accomodate the average height of woman. I go this same kind of thing designing equipment and work cells at work. The majority of our assembly personel are women (I’m sure that will be an issue with this site). In fact, the majority are asian, which tend to be even smaller. For ergonomic reasons, we must design based around the average height and reach of women. Yes, we have some that are taller than the average 5’6″ but too bad for them. Not everything is an attack on women.

By: When “woman” means “short” « Design Research

When “woman” means “short” « Design Research — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:36:00 +0000

[...] means “short” September 21, 2009 Sociological Images has a great post about product design gone wrong due to stereotypes. Lisa writes that Moto Guzzi motorcycles have created a “lady seat” [...]

By: Heta

Heta — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:45:11 +0000

Or is that American football? It seems to require more, or a different kind of, muscle strenght than the European.

By: Heta

Heta — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:44:06 +0000

“If we had two football leagues (say, in high school) based on weight, both sex integrated…”

That’d work with football, I think, but with many other sports not so much, because even if a man and a woman are the same weight, the man is likely to have more muscle out of that weight, and be stronger.

By: splack

splack — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:43:40 +0000

Sorry, I meant to reply directly to Simone.

By: splack

splack — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:42:43 +0000

Yes Simone, but the stigma is attached to “womanly” qualities. Anything “womanly” is thought to be of less value than “male” qualities. It’s the reason men are called pussies as a put-down, etc.

Men’s feelings might be hurt by being compared to women, but men aren’t the ones I feel bad for in these situations.

By: Simone

Simone — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 02:05:45 +0000

Heh. I don’t think that’s what Leerie meant! She said is was “difficult” for the men–probably because they experience so much social stigma for being at all womanish.

By: Simone

Simone — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 02:02:26 +0000

As someone who probably outweighs her boyfriend, all I can say is…HAH!

By: splack

splack — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:00:54 +0000

Because it’s a tragedy when men are thought to have eeeeeeewgirls qualities? Because women are barely human?

By: Jason

Jason — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 22:53:00 +0000

In bicycles – and I imaging motorcycles would be rather similar in this regard – a 30-mm difference in seat height can make a massive difference in comfort.

By: Leerie

Leerie — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:50:52 +0000

As a 5’11″ woman, I’m used to buying “men’s” stuff, and don’t have a problem with it. But in my experience it’s a lot more difficult for some men going the other way around. I feel really sorry for the short guys who need that seat.

By: Heta

Heta — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:22:21 +0000

I don’t get what difference it makes whether you get a “lady seat” or the original – the height difference is 30 mm! It’s a bit more than an inch.