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	<title>Comments on: Orientals Vs. Gauchos: Who Are You Rooting For?</title>
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	<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/</link>
	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 17:40:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: M. Arango</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-518540</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Arango</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 05:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-518540</guid>
		<description>Gauchos are from Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay and in none ate tortillas. The Mexican cowboy is called Charro</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gauchos are from Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay and in none ate tortillas. The Mexican cowboy is called Charro</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-465515</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 22:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-465515</guid>
		<description>*Spanish architecture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*Spanish architecture.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-465514</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 22:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-465514</guid>
		<description>UCSB and Santa Barbara in general tend to look upon their Spanish heritage with pride. The downtown area is done in mostly architecture, the entire area was originally settled around a Spanish Mission. What&#039;s wrong with having a Spanish (or in this case, Argentine) Mascot? 

Gaucho is not a racially-charged term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UCSB and Santa Barbara in general tend to look upon their Spanish heritage with pride. The downtown area is done in mostly architecture, the entire area was originally settled around a Spanish Mission. What&#8217;s wrong with having a Spanish (or in this case, Argentine) Mascot? </p>
<p>Gaucho is not a racially-charged term.</p>
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		<title>By: Reminder: Racist Mascots are an Industry &#187; Sociological Images</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-231477</link>
		<dc:creator>Reminder: Racist Mascots are an Industry &#187; Sociological Images</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-231477</guid>
		<description>[...] not just a poor choice.  It would be much more difficult to field a team called the Indians, the Gauchos, or the Orientals if there were no pre-made costumes to buy.  var addthis_language = &#039;en&#039;;       1 Comment     Tags: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not just a poor choice.  It would be much more difficult to field a team called the Indians, the Gauchos, or the Orientals if there were no pre-made costumes to buy.  var addthis_language = &#39;en&#39;;       1 Comment     Tags: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Freedman</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-193889</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Freedman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 03:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-193889</guid>
		<description>A very quick Google search for the words &quot;UCSB&quot; and &quot;tortillas&quot; brought up this Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Santa_Barbara_Events_Center

An excerpt from this article:

&#039;In the early 1990s, it became customary for the students to toss tortillas onto the court like frisbees after the first UCSB basket of the game. The team would then be assessed a technical foul for delay of game while the tortillas were cleaned up, which became infamously known as the &quot;Tortilla Technical.&quot; Despite continued pleading from the players and coaches to stop the practice, students continued the behavior.

&#039;During a game televised by ESPN, tortilla fragments got into one of ESPN&#039;s professional video cameras. The school had to purchase a replacement for the network. The school established a policy of searching students for tortillas as they entered the arena and eventually the novelty wore off. While the tortillas have stopped flying at The Thunderdome, raucous students have brought the practice to Harder Stadium, home of the 2006 NCAA champion UC Santa Barbara Gauchos men&#039;s soccer team where no such penalties are enforced.&#039;

This explains the reference to &quot;tortillas&quot; in the UCSB soccer poster. I suspect that the UCSB students who first used tortillas as projectiles in the 1990s were motivated primarily by their low cost, portability, and Frisbee-like aerodynamics.

I note that Professor Wade graduated from UCSB in 1996 (http://departments.oxy.edu/sociology/Wade%20cv.htm), during the years that the tortilla-throwing fad was going on and was being reported in the UCSB student newspaper. Perhaps she had forgotten the history of the tortilla throwers when she wrote this piece.

The following piece from the Santa Barbara Independent is also of interest:

http://ucsbgauchos.cstv.com/genrel/042209aah.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very quick Google search for the words &#8220;UCSB&#8221; and &#8220;tortillas&#8221; brought up this Wikipedia article:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Santa_Barbara_Events_Center" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Santa_Barbara_Events_Center</a></p>
<p>An excerpt from this article:</p>
<p>&#8216;In the early 1990s, it became customary for the students to toss tortillas onto the court like frisbees after the first UCSB basket of the game. The team would then be assessed a technical foul for delay of game while the tortillas were cleaned up, which became infamously known as the &#8220;Tortilla Technical.&#8221; Despite continued pleading from the players and coaches to stop the practice, students continued the behavior.</p>
<p>&#8216;During a game televised by ESPN, tortilla fragments got into one of ESPN&#8217;s professional video cameras. The school had to purchase a replacement for the network. The school established a policy of searching students for tortillas as they entered the arena and eventually the novelty wore off. While the tortillas have stopped flying at The Thunderdome, raucous students have brought the practice to Harder Stadium, home of the 2006 NCAA champion UC Santa Barbara Gauchos men&#8217;s soccer team where no such penalties are enforced.&#8217;</p>
<p>This explains the reference to &#8220;tortillas&#8221; in the UCSB soccer poster. I suspect that the UCSB students who first used tortillas as projectiles in the 1990s were motivated primarily by their low cost, portability, and Frisbee-like aerodynamics.</p>
<p>I note that Professor Wade graduated from UCSB in 1996 (<a href="http://departments.oxy.edu/sociology/Wade%20cv.htm" rel="nofollow">http://departments.oxy.edu/sociology/Wade%20cv.htm</a>), during the years that the tortilla-throwing fad was going on and was being reported in the UCSB student newspaper. Perhaps she had forgotten the history of the tortilla throwers when she wrote this piece.</p>
<p>The following piece from the Santa Barbara Independent is also of interest:</p>
<p><a href="http://ucsbgauchos.cstv.com/genrel/042209aah.html" rel="nofollow">http://ucsbgauchos.cstv.com/genrel/042209aah.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Ragin&#8217; Cajuns &#187; Sociological Images</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-138887</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ragin&#8217; Cajuns &#187; Sociological Images</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-138887</guid>
		<description>[...] the Ragin&#8217; Cajun controversy in light of the other mascots we&#8217;ve covered: the Orientals, the Gauchos, the Jews, the Fighting Irish, and the Indians.        Leave a Comment     Tags: education, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Ragin&#8217; Cajun controversy in light of the other mascots we&#8217;ve covered: the Orientals, the Gauchos, the Jews, the Fighting Irish, and the Indians.        Leave a Comment     Tags: education, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alice</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-127472</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-127472</guid>
		<description>So none of you guys have heard of this? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Whites


(and I LOVED the comment about the yankees.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So none of you guys have heard of this?<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Whites" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Whites</a></p>
<p>(and I LOVED the comment about the yankees.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dane</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-126029</link>
		<dc:creator>Dane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-126029</guid>
		<description>Ajax Amsterdam is not, and has never been, called &quot;The Jews&quot;.
It is the FANS of the club, who have chosen to name themselves this way. This was done as a reaction of defiance towards fans of other teams in The Netherlands, who referred to Ajax&#039; fans (in a derogatory way) as &quot;Jews&quot;. Instead of continuing to be offended, Ajax&#039; fans adopted the name as a badge of honour, turning a &quot;negative&quot;, or derogatory, statement into a &quot;positive&quot; one.

There is a lot of different reasons for this (collective dutch guilt for the near-extermination of their jewish population in WW2, the &quot;cult&quot; surrounding the house and history of Anne Frank etc.), but it is not, and never has been an OFFICIAL name of the club. It could be compared with the way The Green Bay Packers are referred to as &quot;Cheeseheads&quot;.

There is a vast difference between a group of fans taking a derogatory nickname and turning it upside-down, and a team or a school, that uses an ethnic slur as their OFFICIAL name, against the wishes of the people being slurred, and continuing to do so, even when all excuses are exhausted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ajax Amsterdam is not, and has never been, called &#8220;The Jews&#8221;.<br />
It is the FANS of the club, who have chosen to name themselves this way. This was done as a reaction of defiance towards fans of other teams in The Netherlands, who referred to Ajax&#8217; fans (in a derogatory way) as &#8220;Jews&#8221;. Instead of continuing to be offended, Ajax&#8217; fans adopted the name as a badge of honour, turning a &#8220;negative&#8221;, or derogatory, statement into a &#8220;positive&#8221; one.</p>
<p>There is a lot of different reasons for this (collective dutch guilt for the near-extermination of their jewish population in WW2, the &#8220;cult&#8221; surrounding the house and history of Anne Frank etc.), but it is not, and never has been an OFFICIAL name of the club. It could be compared with the way The Green Bay Packers are referred to as &#8220;Cheeseheads&#8221;.</p>
<p>There is a vast difference between a group of fans taking a derogatory nickname and turning it upside-down, and a team or a school, that uses an ethnic slur as their OFFICIAL name, against the wishes of the people being slurred, and continuing to do so, even when all excuses are exhausted.</p>
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		<title>By: Thursday Blogwhoring &#171; random babble&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-115816</link>
		<dc:creator>Thursday Blogwhoring &#171; random babble&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-115816</guid>
		<description>[...] Sociological Images:  Orientals Vs. Gauchos:  Who are you rooting for? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sociological Images:  Orientals Vs. Gauchos:  Who are you rooting for? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: juglar del zipa</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-114525</link>
		<dc:creator>juglar del zipa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-114525</guid>
		<description>some sports commentators in south america use nicknames for soccer national teams. aboriginal (imperial) groups: peru are the &quot;incas&quot; and paraguay the &quot;guaraníes&quot;. weird case of pars pro toto: &quot;cariocas&quot;--people from the city of rio de janeiro--is used for the whole brazilian team. the colombian team are the &quot;cafeteros&quot; (as a colombian i can only say it sounds way weird, i guess because soccer is related with the caribbean coast). the guys from venezuela are the &quot;patriotas&quot;--bolívar, i guess. and then come uruguay (the &quot;charruas&quot;) and argentina: the gauchos!

now, calling someone gaucho in argentina is a class-racial insult--just ask borges. but the gaucho--as the aboriginals in the rest of latin america--have this contradictory yet useful pride-shame value: &quot;we&#039;re all the proud descendants of these good savages but god forbid we&#039;re still as poor and uncivilized as them. wtf, we&#039;re just not them.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some sports commentators in south america use nicknames for soccer national teams. aboriginal (imperial) groups: peru are the &#8220;incas&#8221; and paraguay the &#8220;guaraníes&#8221;. weird case of pars pro toto: &#8220;cariocas&#8221;&#8211;people from the city of rio de janeiro&#8211;is used for the whole brazilian team. the colombian team are the &#8220;cafeteros&#8221; (as a colombian i can only say it sounds way weird, i guess because soccer is related with the caribbean coast). the guys from venezuela are the &#8220;patriotas&#8221;&#8211;bolívar, i guess. and then come uruguay (the &#8220;charruas&#8221;) and argentina: the gauchos!</p>
<p>now, calling someone gaucho in argentina is a class-racial insult&#8211;just ask borges. but the gaucho&#8211;as the aboriginals in the rest of latin america&#8211;have this contradictory yet useful pride-shame value: &#8220;we&#8217;re all the proud descendants of these good savages but god forbid we&#8217;re still as poor and uncivilized as them. wtf, we&#8217;re just not them.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Sandrágoras</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-114210</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandrágoras</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-114210</guid>
		<description>What I think is the sadest thing of this all, is that those mascots belong to educative institutions. What does a Gaucho has to do with a Tortilla? It makes me think in that USA map where everything that is not USA, is unknown ground and everybody who&#039;s not an american look the same.

Well, I feel sorry for the students.

Regards from México City.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I think is the sadest thing of this all, is that those mascots belong to educative institutions. What does a Gaucho has to do with a Tortilla? It makes me think in that USA map where everything that is not USA, is unknown ground and everybody who&#8217;s not an american look the same.</p>
<p>Well, I feel sorry for the students.</p>
<p>Regards from México City.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-114162</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-114162</guid>
		<description>So not liking a football team from Miami makes people more likely to purchase tuna that isn&#039;t dolphin safe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So not liking a football team from Miami makes people more likely to purchase tuna that isn&#8217;t dolphin safe?</p>
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		<title>By: Shana</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-112769</link>
		<dc:creator>Shana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-112769</guid>
		<description>At first glance, Orientals did not bother me. Oriental simply means East as Occidental means West. I thought it appropriate for a school called EAST high school. However, The &quot;Asianesque&quot; font and dragon symbol puts a spin on their choice of mascot. On the one hand, the mascot inspires and excites the school, and the crowd at sporting events. It is an honor to be chosen as your school mascot. (Ask the teenager wearing the big cartoon-like Tiger costume at LSU) But, as you point out, they also become the target of the opposing team. This would be all in good fun except that it reinforces negative feelings and stereotypes covertly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At first glance, Orientals did not bother me. Oriental simply means East as Occidental means West. I thought it appropriate for a school called EAST high school. However, The &#8220;Asianesque&#8221; font and dragon symbol puts a spin on their choice of mascot. On the one hand, the mascot inspires and excites the school, and the crowd at sporting events. It is an honor to be chosen as your school mascot. (Ask the teenager wearing the big cartoon-like Tiger costume at LSU) But, as you point out, they also become the target of the opposing team. This would be all in good fun except that it reinforces negative feelings and stereotypes covertly.</p>
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		<title>By: Purrdence</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-112752</link>
		<dc:creator>Purrdence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-112752</guid>
		<description>How interesting. :) In Australian English, &#039;ute&#039; is the name for what I think American English calls a &#039;pickup truck&#039;. Until I read the rest of the paragraph, a football team called &#039;The Utes&#039; was a bit of a &#039;what the?&#039; moment for me. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How interesting. :) In Australian English, &#8216;ute&#8217; is the name for what I think American English calls a &#8216;pickup truck&#8217;. Until I read the rest of the paragraph, a football team called &#8216;The Utes&#8217; was a bit of a &#8216;what the?&#8217; moment for me. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Tiago</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/15/go-orientials-go/comment-page-1/#comment-112397</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9480#comment-112397</guid>
		<description>if you get upset about something, you are upset, that&#039;s it, you can&#039;t do anything about it... what, someone else is gonna point out that it&#039;s silly and then you&#039;re gonna say &quot;oh, ok, my bad&quot;... I don&#039;t want to seem like I just want to get on your case, but I wanted to say that I think we should try to remember exactly what it means to say this, you know... the final decision on whether or not it is silly to be upset belongs solely to the person that is upset, then I want to see it be ruled silly. In the normal social world, sure, it&#039;s fine to speak in terms of silliness, but not when we&#039;re talking about such sensitive things as prejudice, discrimination and defamation, not if we actually want to get somewhere.
For me, I just take it as a rule, I can never assume to understand the worthiness of someone else&#039;s indignation or the exact state of someone else&#039;s mind, either I have the indignation or I don&#039;t. You know each person&#039;s individual experiences are to them all the drama in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if you get upset about something, you are upset, that&#8217;s it, you can&#8217;t do anything about it&#8230; what, someone else is gonna point out that it&#8217;s silly and then you&#8217;re gonna say &#8220;oh, ok, my bad&#8221;&#8230; I don&#8217;t want to seem like I just want to get on your case, but I wanted to say that I think we should try to remember exactly what it means to say this, you know&#8230; the final decision on whether or not it is silly to be upset belongs solely to the person that is upset, then I want to see it be ruled silly. In the normal social world, sure, it&#8217;s fine to speak in terms of silliness, but not when we&#8217;re talking about such sensitive things as prejudice, discrimination and defamation, not if we actually want to get somewhere.<br />
For me, I just take it as a rule, I can never assume to understand the worthiness of someone else&#8217;s indignation or the exact state of someone else&#8217;s mind, either I have the indignation or I don&#8217;t. You know each person&#8217;s individual experiences are to them all the drama in the world.</p>
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