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	<title>Comments on: Teaching Kids That There Is A Battle Of The Sexes</title>
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	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
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		<title>By: Landen</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-533783</link>
		<dc:creator>Landen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2011 01:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-533783</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a boy and I, personally, am most definitely housetrained. I also brush my teeth and tend to avoid the consumption of insects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a boy and I, personally, am most definitely housetrained. I also brush my teeth and tend to avoid the consumption of insects.</p>
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		<title>By: Martian Anthropologist</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-501802</link>
		<dc:creator>Martian Anthropologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 May 2011 04:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-501802</guid>
		<description>Anyone else think it&#039;s interesting that &quot;boys&quot; have white skin and blue eyes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone else think it&#8217;s interesting that &#8220;boys&#8221; have white skin and blue eyes?</p>
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		<title>By: Shaping Youth &#187; Attention KMart Shoppers: Dating Violence on Aisle3</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-125662</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaping Youth &#187; Attention KMart Shoppers: Dating Violence on Aisle3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-125662</guid>
		<description>[...] me of the &#8216;teaching kids there&#8217;s a battle of the sexes&#8217; article about those  &#8216;throw rocks at boys&#8217; David &amp; Goliath tees with tude, &#8212;backlash goes both ways) So yah, Kmart shoppers, laugh [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] me of the &#8216;teaching kids there&#8217;s a battle of the sexes&#8217; article about those  &#8216;throw rocks at boys&#8217; David &amp; Goliath tees with tude, &#8212;backlash goes both ways) So yah, Kmart shoppers, laugh [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102155</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102155</guid>
		<description>I would say that the majority of damage done to men--including misandry--is perpetrated by other men. Or the patriarchy at large.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would say that the majority of damage done to men&#8211;including misandry&#8211;is perpetrated by other men. Or the patriarchy at large.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102152</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102152</guid>
		<description>I agree, and babbled something similar (and less eloquent) upthread: the idea of women being violent toward men only gets a pass because they aren&#039;t seen as a real threat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, and babbled something similar (and less eloquent) upthread: the idea of women being violent toward men only gets a pass because they aren&#8217;t seen as a real threat.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102151</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102151</guid>
		<description>Yes, it reminds me of straight guys hitting on lesbians by offering to cut their penises off or something. Because clearly all lesbians want nothing more to castrate men--and the definition of woman is simply the absence of a penis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it reminds me of straight guys hitting on lesbians by offering to cut their penises off or something. Because clearly all lesbians want nothing more to castrate men&#8211;and the definition of woman is simply the absence of a penis.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102150</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 03:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102150</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree with Matt that sexism against men is not possible, but I think one reason violence by women against men gets a pass that violence against women doesn&#039;t *is* inherently sexist toward women: that women are so much weaker/more inept at fighting that girls throwing rocks at boys isn&#039;t even a threat. How many scenes from romantic comedies depict an angry heroine furiously beating the hero&#039;s chest, and he doesn&#039;t even stagger? 

I also think, in addition to perpetuating the &quot;battle of the sexes&quot; by presenting boys as enemies to girls, the David and Goliath shirts reinforce stereotypes that girls are mean and catty and unpredictably moody. It reminds me, somewhat, of the &quot;I&#039;m a brat&quot; and &quot;PMS=psychosis&quot;-type shirts I see girls and women wearing.

I&#039;m not saying the shirts aren&#039;t sexist toward boys. I&#039;m simply saying the girls don&#039;t benefit from the message at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree with Matt that sexism against men is not possible, but I think one reason violence by women against men gets a pass that violence against women doesn&#8217;t *is* inherently sexist toward women: that women are so much weaker/more inept at fighting that girls throwing rocks at boys isn&#8217;t even a threat. How many scenes from romantic comedies depict an angry heroine furiously beating the hero&#8217;s chest, and he doesn&#8217;t even stagger? </p>
<p>I also think, in addition to perpetuating the &#8220;battle of the sexes&#8221; by presenting boys as enemies to girls, the David and Goliath shirts reinforce stereotypes that girls are mean and catty and unpredictably moody. It reminds me, somewhat, of the &#8220;I&#8217;m a brat&#8221; and &#8220;PMS=psychosis&#8221;-type shirts I see girls and women wearing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying the shirts aren&#8217;t sexist toward boys. I&#8217;m simply saying the girls don&#8217;t benefit from the message at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102130</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 01:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102130</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve had several people buy me these things.  Because I think women should have power and autonomy and be respected.  Which of course means that I think boys are stinky.

Uuuuh... what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had several people buy me these things.  Because I think women should have power and autonomy and be respected.  Which of course means that I think boys are stinky.</p>
<p>Uuuuh&#8230; what?</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102105</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 00:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102105</guid>
		<description>@Bagelsan:
You may think it is a foolish statement, but I stand by it.  Sexism is discriminatory or abusive behavior toward the opposite sex.  The context makes no difference.  Who has historically been more sexist overall toward whom may alter how sensitive we are to a sexist comment, but it has absolutely no bearing on how sexist the comment itself is.  In that sense, prejudice and stereotyping do indeed exist completely independent of context; the context is what determines how offended specific groups of people become.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bagelsan:<br />
You may think it is a foolish statement, but I stand by it.  Sexism is discriminatory or abusive behavior toward the opposite sex.  The context makes no difference.  Who has historically been more sexist overall toward whom may alter how sensitive we are to a sexist comment, but it has absolutely no bearing on how sexist the comment itself is.  In that sense, prejudice and stereotyping do indeed exist completely independent of context; the context is what determines how offended specific groups of people become.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102099</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102099</guid>
		<description>To be clear, I agree with the comment:

&quot;Calling stereotypes against men “sexist” doesn’t make sense in the same way as it applies to women’s conditions. There isn’t the same context.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be clear, I agree with the comment:</p>
<p>&#8220;Calling stereotypes against men “sexist” doesn’t make sense in the same way as it applies to women’s conditions. There isn’t the same context.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102098</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102098</guid>
		<description>I agree.  This is the same when applied to racism.  Minorities being &quot;racist&quot; against whites is different than the reverse because of history and power differentials.  

That said, discrimination based on either sex is, indeed, something of concern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree.  This is the same when applied to racism.  Minorities being &#8220;racist&#8221; against whites is different than the reverse because of history and power differentials.  </p>
<p>That said, discrimination based on either sex is, indeed, something of concern.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt K</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102051</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102051</guid>
		<description>Mania, I&#039;m not sure if you follow Shakesville, but this post (http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html) and its followup might be of interest to you.

I think the problem is that for dudes, feminism is often just an abstract philosophy or ideal that they can freely engage with, like liberalism. That&#039;s the power of privilege, it means you don&#039;t have to face certain issues in your day-to-day life. Sexism is something &quot;out there&quot; for men -- the closest men get to experiencing it is through the women in their lives, but obviously never experiencing it firsthand means that it&#039;s not the same thing. I think that&#039;s why so often, apparently liberal men want to debate and discuss feminist issues in a very detached manner (or want to play devil&#039;s advocate just because), and are disturbed or surprised when women take things personally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mania, I&#8217;m not sure if you follow Shakesville, but this post (<a href="http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html" rel="nofollow">http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html</a>) and its followup might be of interest to you.</p>
<p>I think the problem is that for dudes, feminism is often just an abstract philosophy or ideal that they can freely engage with, like liberalism. That&#8217;s the power of privilege, it means you don&#8217;t have to face certain issues in your day-to-day life. Sexism is something &#8220;out there&#8221; for men &#8212; the closest men get to experiencing it is through the women in their lives, but obviously never experiencing it firsthand means that it&#8217;s not the same thing. I think that&#8217;s why so often, apparently liberal men want to debate and discuss feminist issues in a very detached manner (or want to play devil&#8217;s advocate just because), and are disturbed or surprised when women take things personally.</p>
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		<title>By: Samantha C</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102040</link>
		<dc:creator>Samantha C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102040</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not saying that anyhting like this is a major problem facing men. I&#039;m just saying that If you&#039;re going to teach little boys that it&#039;s not okay to be mean to little girls, and you&#039;re trying to teach gender equality to a new generation, you have to also teach little girls that it&#039;s not okay to be mean to little boys. I think things like these shirts undermine an attempt to form a society that may EVER actually be equal. I don&#039;t think the shirts are really that harmful. But they&#039;re certianly not about to HELP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not saying that anyhting like this is a major problem facing men. I&#8217;m just saying that If you&#8217;re going to teach little boys that it&#8217;s not okay to be mean to little girls, and you&#8217;re trying to teach gender equality to a new generation, you have to also teach little girls that it&#8217;s not okay to be mean to little boys. I think things like these shirts undermine an attempt to form a society that may EVER actually be equal. I don&#8217;t think the shirts are really that harmful. But they&#8217;re certianly not about to HELP.</p>
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		<title>By: Mania</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102032</link>
		<dc:creator>Mania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102032</guid>
		<description>I had a fascinating discussion with my husband the other day about the &#039;battle of the sexes&#039;. I said something along the lines of &#039;our culture sets men and women up as opposing forces, which is bad for both men and women&#039;. He disagreed. 

Three hours of thoughtful, reasonably peaceful discussion later, he admitted that there is quite a bit of combat-related concepts and terminology floating around the whole man-woman &#039;thing&#039;, although he still feels that this could be primarily sub- or unconscious, and certainly isn&#039;t being reinforced on purpose by anyone. 

And this just amazes me. My husband is fairly liberal sort who probably thinks of himself as feminist-leaning and a true believer in equality. But he&#039;s never thought about this in any detail before, and his knee-jerk reaction is that it couldn&#039;t be true -- I must be exaggerating. 

Every time he and I talk about these topics, he comes to understand a tiny, tiny bit more where I am coming from. But it takes a lot of time and a lot of careful discussion. I can&#039;t imagine the kind of in-depth one-on-one interaction that would be required to help someone who isn&#039;t already pretty liberal (and also my husband, who is inclined to trust and believe me) get the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a fascinating discussion with my husband the other day about the &#8216;battle of the sexes&#8217;. I said something along the lines of &#8216;our culture sets men and women up as opposing forces, which is bad for both men and women&#8217;. He disagreed. </p>
<p>Three hours of thoughtful, reasonably peaceful discussion later, he admitted that there is quite a bit of combat-related concepts and terminology floating around the whole man-woman &#8216;thing&#8217;, although he still feels that this could be primarily sub- or unconscious, and certainly isn&#8217;t being reinforced on purpose by anyone. </p>
<p>And this just amazes me. My husband is fairly liberal sort who probably thinks of himself as feminist-leaning and a true believer in equality. But he&#8217;s never thought about this in any detail before, and his knee-jerk reaction is that it couldn&#8217;t be true &#8212; I must be exaggerating. </p>
<p>Every time he and I talk about these topics, he comes to understand a tiny, tiny bit more where I am coming from. But it takes a lot of time and a lot of careful discussion. I can&#8217;t imagine the kind of in-depth one-on-one interaction that would be required to help someone who isn&#8217;t already pretty liberal (and also my husband, who is inclined to trust and believe me) get the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Amy Jussel, Shaping Youth</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/08/19/teaching-kids-that-there-is-a-battle-of-the-sexes/comment-page-1/#comment-102006</link>
		<dc:creator>Amy Jussel, Shaping Youth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 20:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=12383#comment-102006</guid>
		<description>@Matt completely agree on the narrowcasting of patriarchal gender roles and appreciate your male POV speaking to the bigger issue; and @Samantha, your comment resonates in the &#039;neither/nor&#039; arena...

I&#039;ll toss in the corollary of racial stereotypes for context (see Racialicious.com or Anti-Racist Parent to get the drift here) because it&#039;s an easy way to see a double-standard readily apparent. (e.g. how many times have you heard racial-religious slams/slurs/stereotypes deemed as &#039;ok if uttered by someone from that background&#039;?) 

The problem is not just the &#039;joke&#039; itself, it&#039;s the perpetuation of a stereotype that won&#039;t snuff itself out. That&#039;s why normalizing cues like these tees, or reinforcing sexist tees like this &#039;nipples-tassles-tot&#039; shirt in the name of &#039;satire&#039; just don&#039;t fly with me. http://tinyurl.com/m5v63g 

Yeah, they can easily be shrugged off as stupid, but truth is, kids pay attention to what we value, applaud, reward and moreover, PERPETUATE in society...it&#039;s subliminal and it seeps into the larger cultural context.

After all, kids are dealing with this: http://www.shapingyouth.org/?p=8049 and misogynistic misfires like this: http://www.shapingyouth.org/?p=45 so it&#039;s important to see where the backlash/battle of the sexes takes hold. (I&#039;d hope we could keep kindergartners out of the trenches, rather than putting our adult &#039;stuff&#039; on them so early.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt completely agree on the narrowcasting of patriarchal gender roles and appreciate your male POV speaking to the bigger issue; and @Samantha, your comment resonates in the &#8216;neither/nor&#8217; arena&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll toss in the corollary of racial stereotypes for context (see Racialicious.com or Anti-Racist Parent to get the drift here) because it&#8217;s an easy way to see a double-standard readily apparent. (e.g. how many times have you heard racial-religious slams/slurs/stereotypes deemed as &#8216;ok if uttered by someone from that background&#8217;?) </p>
<p>The problem is not just the &#8216;joke&#8217; itself, it&#8217;s the perpetuation of a stereotype that won&#8217;t snuff itself out. That&#8217;s why normalizing cues like these tees, or reinforcing sexist tees like this &#8216;nipples-tassles-tot&#8217; shirt in the name of &#8216;satire&#8217; just don&#8217;t fly with me. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/m5v63g" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/m5v63g</a> </p>
<p>Yeah, they can easily be shrugged off as stupid, but truth is, kids pay attention to what we value, applaud, reward and moreover, PERPETUATE in society&#8230;it&#8217;s subliminal and it seeps into the larger cultural context.</p>
<p>After all, kids are dealing with this: <a href="http://www.shapingyouth.org/?p=8049" rel="nofollow">http://www.shapingyouth.org/?p=8049</a> and misogynistic misfires like this: <a href="http://www.shapingyouth.org/?p=45" rel="nofollow">http://www.shapingyouth.org/?p=45</a> so it&#8217;s important to see where the backlash/battle of the sexes takes hold. (I&#8217;d hope we could keep kindergartners out of the trenches, rather than putting our adult &#8216;stuff&#8217; on them so early.)</p>
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