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	<title>Comments on: Fallen Princesses</title>
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	<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/</link>
	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
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		<title>By: Ellie</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-518428</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 00:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-518428</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it&#039;s supposed to be offensive - maybe the photographer was trying to emphasize the difference between fairy tales and reality. The Jasmine one isn&#039;t exactly racist, because she is an Indian princess, and that&#039;s what is happening in the Middle East (not with women of course). You can&#039;t deny the fact that where this takes place isn&#039;t defined by the amount of women getting plastic surgery - but by war, and that&#039;s what is portrayed.

Don&#039;t be oversensitive about race.

Rapunzel with cancer is sad, but not offensive. She&#039;s defined by her hair, and losing it makes her a fallen princess. It doesn&#039;t mean if you have cancer you&#039;re a fallen person. You need to have an open mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s supposed to be offensive &#8211; maybe the photographer was trying to emphasize the difference between fairy tales and reality. The Jasmine one isn&#8217;t exactly racist, because she is an Indian princess, and that&#8217;s what is happening in the Middle East (not with women of course). You can&#8217;t deny the fact that where this takes place isn&#8217;t defined by the amount of women getting plastic surgery &#8211; but by war, and that&#8217;s what is portrayed.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be oversensitive about race.</p>
<p>Rapunzel with cancer is sad, but not offensive. She&#8217;s defined by her hair, and losing it makes her a fallen princess. It doesn&#8217;t mean if you have cancer you&#8217;re a fallen person. You need to have an open mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Well</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-501667</link>
		<dc:creator>Well</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 May 2011 22:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-501667</guid>
		<description>Actually, considering you still believe in the prince thing at age 20, I suspect people enjoy fairy tales because they think they *do* highlight attainable aspects of real life. Besides, the movies themselves imply that life will be great and wonderful because the princess found her prince, so it is in fact insightful to question whether that would actually happen. After all, the first 98% of the movie only has meaning if finding one&#039;s prince is indeed the key to a wonderful and fulfilling life, so it is quite appropriate to question whether that is true (or its analogy in the real world anyway).

I find it very disturbing that these images of monarchy and stratification are considered ideal, hopeful, and good lessons for our children. We supposedly live in a democratic society yet our &quot;ideals and fantasies&quot; involve pining for a time and place that strongly resembles a fascist society before the word &quot;fascism&quot; was invented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, considering you still believe in the prince thing at age 20, I suspect people enjoy fairy tales because they think they *do* highlight attainable aspects of real life. Besides, the movies themselves imply that life will be great and wonderful because the princess found her prince, so it is in fact insightful to question whether that would actually happen. After all, the first 98% of the movie only has meaning if finding one&#8217;s prince is indeed the key to a wonderful and fulfilling life, so it is quite appropriate to question whether that is true (or its analogy in the real world anyway).</p>
<p>I find it very disturbing that these images of monarchy and stratification are considered ideal, hopeful, and good lessons for our children. We supposedly live in a democratic society yet our &#8220;ideals and fantasies&#8221; involve pining for a time and place that strongly resembles a fascist society before the word &#8220;fascism&#8221; was invented.</p>
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		<title>By: Well</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-501665</link>
		<dc:creator>Well</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 May 2011 22:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-501665</guid>
		<description>Teaching children to worship monarchy and regalia != teaching children to hope, or that happiness comes to good people. To the contrary, happiness only seems to come to those who were born on the highest rung of a very stratified society where most people are either irrelevant, hindrances, or blandly helpful to the royals (without imposing the reality of their miserable existence onto the royals&#039; beautiful self-indulgence), and there seems to be no hope for anyone other than royals and the handful of Kate Middletons who are &quot;destined&quot; to fall in love with one of the royals. I&#039;m sure you can see why a known Nazi sympathizer and his company would want to portray the aristocracy as &quot;good people&quot; and their success in love and life as extending naturally from their merits.

I&#039;m not some bitter and sad person who wants to see all idealism and fantasy wiped from the earth. To the contrary, I watch a lot of movies, documentaries and lectures about hopes and prospects for a better world. It keeps me up at night imagining a just and equitable future where every individual and community has a say in the policies and conflicts that affect them, where work is so efficiently organized from the bottom up that we will only work a few days a week and spend the rest of the time building joyous relationships and discovering the wonders of the world, where rich neighborhoods and countries stop exploiting poor neighborhoods and countries. Look at LA, for example: Rodeo Drive can only be so trouble-free because the industrial production is off smogging up the poor neighborhoods, giving black and brown kids asthma; and because hyperpolicing in poor neighborhoods keeps the disenfranchised in their place instead of taking the things they need. Then look at the underdeveloped nations that are now experiencing the impacts of climate change driven by the greedy overconsumption of industrialized nations.

For every Disney princess there&#039;s a little girl from Gaza with PTSD, wasting away because her parents&#039; subsistence farm was walled off or given to settlers. I think an uplifting story about the Gazan girl can offer much more hope than the princess story. After all, every hour the princess spends on true love is another hour that the Gazan girl spends stagnating, unseen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teaching children to worship monarchy and regalia != teaching children to hope, or that happiness comes to good people. To the contrary, happiness only seems to come to those who were born on the highest rung of a very stratified society where most people are either irrelevant, hindrances, or blandly helpful to the royals (without imposing the reality of their miserable existence onto the royals&#8217; beautiful self-indulgence), and there seems to be no hope for anyone other than royals and the handful of Kate Middletons who are &#8220;destined&#8221; to fall in love with one of the royals. I&#8217;m sure you can see why a known Nazi sympathizer and his company would want to portray the aristocracy as &#8220;good people&#8221; and their success in love and life as extending naturally from their merits.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not some bitter and sad person who wants to see all idealism and fantasy wiped from the earth. To the contrary, I watch a lot of movies, documentaries and lectures about hopes and prospects for a better world. It keeps me up at night imagining a just and equitable future where every individual and community has a say in the policies and conflicts that affect them, where work is so efficiently organized from the bottom up that we will only work a few days a week and spend the rest of the time building joyous relationships and discovering the wonders of the world, where rich neighborhoods and countries stop exploiting poor neighborhoods and countries. Look at LA, for example: Rodeo Drive can only be so trouble-free because the industrial production is off smogging up the poor neighborhoods, giving black and brown kids asthma; and because hyperpolicing in poor neighborhoods keeps the disenfranchised in their place instead of taking the things they need. Then look at the underdeveloped nations that are now experiencing the impacts of climate change driven by the greedy overconsumption of industrialized nations.</p>
<p>For every Disney princess there&#8217;s a little girl from Gaza with PTSD, wasting away because her parents&#8217; subsistence farm was walled off or given to settlers. I think an uplifting story about the Gazan girl can offer much more hope than the princess story. After all, every hour the princess spends on true love is another hour that the Gazan girl spends stagnating, unseen.</p>
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		<title>By: Well</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-501651</link>
		<dc:creator>Well</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 May 2011 22:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-501651</guid>
		<description>I find it depressing that the ideals and fantasies of a known Nazi sympathizer and his hand-picked successors are so often allowed to dictate our own ideals and fantasies. The images in Disney movies are incredibly limiting to human potential while teaching young girls all the wrong things about relationships: the only goal in life is to find your prince, who is generally rich white royalty (who does that ideal benefit?), and whom you will live happily ever after with because you two are just Meant to Be, nevermind finding out about his personality, vices, strengths, weaknesses, and propensity to beat his partner up or make her do all the unpaid domestic work for the rest of their lives. Many of these movies are also incredibly racist, affirming that their ideals and fantasies are only fit for people with a certain small range of skin colors--not exactly &quot;ideal&quot; for a democratic society, wouldn&#039;t you say? Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but this is the general pattern observable in this particular sort of fantasy.

Disney concepts are not just neutral vessels of happiness, they tend toward certain social, racial and political ideals, and definitely a stratified society where most people are irrelevant rabble and the few born into wealth and power are the only ones whose stories matter. Again, not so great for a democracy, but very suitable for the kind of society Walt Disney envisioned, if you can imagine how a Nazi sympathizer would want us to view the different races and classes in our society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it depressing that the ideals and fantasies of a known Nazi sympathizer and his hand-picked successors are so often allowed to dictate our own ideals and fantasies. The images in Disney movies are incredibly limiting to human potential while teaching young girls all the wrong things about relationships: the only goal in life is to find your prince, who is generally rich white royalty (who does that ideal benefit?), and whom you will live happily ever after with because you two are just Meant to Be, nevermind finding out about his personality, vices, strengths, weaknesses, and propensity to beat his partner up or make her do all the unpaid domestic work for the rest of their lives. Many of these movies are also incredibly racist, affirming that their ideals and fantasies are only fit for people with a certain small range of skin colors&#8211;not exactly &#8220;ideal&#8221; for a democratic society, wouldn&#8217;t you say? Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but this is the general pattern observable in this particular sort of fantasy.</p>
<p>Disney concepts are not just neutral vessels of happiness, they tend toward certain social, racial and political ideals, and definitely a stratified society where most people are irrelevant rabble and the few born into wealth and power are the only ones whose stories matter. Again, not so great for a democracy, but very suitable for the kind of society Walt Disney envisioned, if you can imagine how a Nazi sympathizer would want us to view the different races and classes in our society.</p>
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		<title>By: Well</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-501647</link>
		<dc:creator>Well</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 May 2011 21:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-501647</guid>
		<description>Yeah, being forced to defend your home and compatriots is certainly a way to &quot;fall&quot;, and exactly the kind of thing a princess would think she&#039;d never have to do. I thought the point of the Jasmine one was that we can&#039;t transcend the ugly realities of cultural and physical conflict, and sooner or later we could all be in the trenches abandoning our enlightened studies/careers/etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, being forced to defend your home and compatriots is certainly a way to &#8220;fall&#8221;, and exactly the kind of thing a princess would think she&#8217;d never have to do. I thought the point of the Jasmine one was that we can&#8217;t transcend the ugly realities of cultural and physical conflict, and sooner or later we could all be in the trenches abandoning our enlightened studies/careers/etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-472262</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Mar 2011 23:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-472262</guid>
		<description>Its because Princesses are never sick and are perfect. And do you think sitting alone in a bar with four older guys staring at you equals hanging out with friends? Not me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its because Princesses are never sick and are perfect. And do you think sitting alone in a bar with four older guys staring at you equals hanging out with friends? Not me!</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-439927</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 23:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-439927</guid>
		<description>there is no image of little red riding hood..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is no image of little red riding hood..</p>
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		<title>By: Exotic = Sex, In Disney Films &#171; The Disney Influence</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-417493</link>
		<dc:creator>Exotic = Sex, In Disney Films &#171; The Disney Influence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 01:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-417493</guid>
		<description>[...] foreign are their darker complexion and their sexualized personas. Disney has built its empire on “Fantasy” and the sexualized exotic characters are an extension of that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] foreign are their darker complexion and their sexualized personas. Disney has built its empire on “Fantasy” and the sexualized exotic characters are an extension of that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Trinna</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-408887</link>
		<dc:creator>Trinna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 05:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-408887</guid>
		<description>I think choice is alive and well. There are high school girls who are not wearing makeup to school three days a week. It started with a handfull and is growing very rapidly. I see celebrities who are choosing to not get plastic surgery. I chose woodworking as my profession. Most women eventually see through the &quot;brainwashing&quot; commercial ads, and we have the freedom to make a choice to be the person we want to beor be the model in the ad.
I really do not get the opression angle. I don&#039;t feel opressed nore does anyone I know. Where do you live? Maybe that has something to do with how you are looking at this.I think if someone lives in, say Hollywood, they may feel that their choices are limited because there is so much pressure to be beautiful, etc. So I think we should take into account our attitudes in respect to our environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think choice is alive and well. There are high school girls who are not wearing makeup to school three days a week. It started with a handfull and is growing very rapidly. I see celebrities who are choosing to not get plastic surgery. I chose woodworking as my profession. Most women eventually see through the &#8220;brainwashing&#8221; commercial ads, and we have the freedom to make a choice to be the person we want to beor be the model in the ad.<br />
I really do not get the opression angle. I don&#8217;t feel opressed nore does anyone I know. Where do you live? Maybe that has something to do with how you are looking at this.I think if someone lives in, say Hollywood, they may feel that their choices are limited because there is so much pressure to be beautiful, etc. So I think we should take into account our attitudes in respect to our environment.</p>
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		<title>By: eternalcynic</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-407910</link>
		<dc:creator>eternalcynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 20:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-407910</guid>
		<description>Nix the question mark punctuating my second-to-last sentence and make it a period. And &quot;messages of fairy tales&quot; should be &quot;messages IN fairy tales&quot;. Danke!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nix the question mark punctuating my second-to-last sentence and make it a period. And &#8220;messages of fairy tales&#8221; should be &#8220;messages IN fairy tales&#8221;. Danke!</p>
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		<title>By: eternalcynic</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-407904</link>
		<dc:creator>eternalcynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 20:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-407904</guid>
		<description>Sophie writes, &quot;I&#039;m just wondering how did Rapunzel&#039;s story end up with cancer? The others make some sense, like Beauty&#039;s plastic surgery, but I don&#039;t get the cancer part.&quot;

I realize I&#039;m quite late in replying to this thread; however, I interpreted the image of Rapunzel as her being lost without her one crowning quality; her one point of vanity: her hair. 

Trinna said, &quot;I believe what the reality is in these pictures is that these women have the choice to have several babies, go to a bar alone, fight in a war, to get treated for cancer, and have cosmetic surgery.
What is the problem here?&quot;

Whilst I&#039;ve never been one to dictate how works of art must be interpreted, the concept of &quot;choice&quot; was clearly not Goldstein&#039;s purpose. The premise -- of the latent messages of fairy tales and reality -- is oppression. For example, I would argue that the focus on beauty both in the original Cinderella AND in modern times (i.e. the pressure to be beautiful, i.e. plastic surgery) is rooted in oppression, not in the &quot;choice&quot; to become beautiful. What about the choice to believe you are naturally beautiful? No such choice exists in our society. I would also argue that, to some extent, choice is but an illusion. After all, how can one truly choose when one has been brainwashed since birth into accepting the norm? Obviously we HAVE to choose, but I would argue that the POWER of FREE choice is greatly diminished, if not nonexistent, in society? If the pressure to &quot;be pretty&quot; didn&#039;t exist, then there would be no pressure to make the choice to get plastic surgery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sophie writes, &#8220;I&#8217;m just wondering how did Rapunzel&#8217;s story end up with cancer? The others make some sense, like Beauty&#8217;s plastic surgery, but I don&#8217;t get the cancer part.&#8221;</p>
<p>I realize I&#8217;m quite late in replying to this thread; however, I interpreted the image of Rapunzel as her being lost without her one crowning quality; her one point of vanity: her hair. </p>
<p>Trinna said, &#8220;I believe what the reality is in these pictures is that these women have the choice to have several babies, go to a bar alone, fight in a war, to get treated for cancer, and have cosmetic surgery.<br />
What is the problem here?&#8221;</p>
<p>Whilst I&#8217;ve never been one to dictate how works of art must be interpreted, the concept of &#8220;choice&#8221; was clearly not Goldstein&#8217;s purpose. The premise &#8212; of the latent messages of fairy tales and reality &#8212; is oppression. For example, I would argue that the focus on beauty both in the original Cinderella AND in modern times (i.e. the pressure to be beautiful, i.e. plastic surgery) is rooted in oppression, not in the &#8220;choice&#8221; to become beautiful. What about the choice to believe you are naturally beautiful? No such choice exists in our society. I would also argue that, to some extent, choice is but an illusion. After all, how can one truly choose when one has been brainwashed since birth into accepting the norm? Obviously we HAVE to choose, but I would argue that the POWER of FREE choice is greatly diminished, if not nonexistent, in society? If the pressure to &#8220;be pretty&#8221; didn&#8217;t exist, then there would be no pressure to make the choice to get plastic surgery.</p>
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		<title>By: Fallen Princesses &#171; A Lack of Colour</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-365999</link>
		<dc:creator>Fallen Princesses &#171; A Lack of Colour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 18:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-365999</guid>
		<description>[...] (via The Society Pages) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (via The Society Pages) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: HAPPILY EVER AFTER, MY FAT STINKY ASS. &#171; FARNAMALS @ WORDPRESS</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-322973</link>
		<dc:creator>HAPPILY EVER AFTER, MY FAT STINKY ASS. &#171; FARNAMALS @ WORDPRESS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 15:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-322973</guid>
		<description>[...] HAPPILY EVER AFTER, MY FAT STINKY&#160;ASS.  Posted in Culture by farnamals on 23/06/2010   Source: Fallen Princesses [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] HAPPILY EVER AFTER, MY FAT STINKY&nbsp;ASS.  Posted in Culture by farnamals on 23/06/2010   Source: Fallen Princesses [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sophie</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-318140</link>
		<dc:creator>Sophie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-318140</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just wondering, how did Rapunzel&#039;s story end up with cancer? The others make some sense, like Beauty&#039;s plastic surgery, but I don&#039;t get the cancer part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just wondering, how did Rapunzel&#8217;s story end up with cancer? The others make some sense, like Beauty&#8217;s plastic surgery, but I don&#8217;t get the cancer part.</p>
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		<title>By: och&#8230; &#171; Kalashnicore</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/07/06/fallen-princesses/comment-page-1/#comment-311080</link>
		<dc:creator>och&#8230; &#171; Kalashnicore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 13:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=9818#comment-311080</guid>
		<description>[...] Bilderna har hämtats härifrån och härifrån. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bilderna har hämtats härifrån och härifrån. [...]</p>
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