Comments on: Poverty, Self-Denial, And New Nikes

By: adamson

adamson — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 02:17:08 +0000

This post is just great. One of the finest from SocImages.

By: Buying a Trampoline | Feminist Vegetables

Buying a Trampoline | Feminist Vegetables — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 01:07:56 +0000

[...] was prompted to remember this story when I read this Sociological Images’ post a while ago. When I was older, I realized $300 would hardly make a dent in a house payment, let [...]

By: Robin F.

Robin F. — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:46:01 +0000

Many times people in poverty do not own an automobile. Also, depending on where you live public transportation can be a nightmare. So the alternative to get anywhere is to walk. I know this because I grew up in poverty without a car. When your feet are your only means of transportation you try to take care of them the best way you know how. Not with an endless supply of high heels but with comfortable tennis shoes that will last a while. You do not get comfortable shoes that last from Wal-Mart or a five and dime. Sometimes you can find designer shoes that have not been worn out at a thrift store other times you have to sacrifice something else in order to have the shoes. This is the life of many people in poverty. High quality shoes become a necessity – not necessarily for the name but because they last.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:04:44 +0000

Wow this is really sad. Im glad I read this. I used to have prejudices about what I thought poor people were like but this really made me think. Thanks for making me see poor people in a different way.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:23:00 +0000

“most trappings of an adult life (your own apartment, framed pictures on the walls, matching dishes)”

that sounds really strange… I’m 23, maybe a bit on the hippie/punk side, and living in eastern europe – in a different planet, I know. My family has all these things, and my friends’ families, too (the flats mostly because the ones built under socialism were easy to buy by the people lived in them, when it ended) – but I would never, ever define my adulthood in relation with all this things.

A place rented with flatmates, posters on the wall, preferably some, that weren’t intended to be posters, and enough plates/plate-like objects to feed all the friends that came over… I’m happy with it.

I have made a photo report about the flats of some of my friends, wich I consider nice and enjoyable. I’d be curious of your reactions.

http://eletmod.transindex.ro/?cikk=9654

By: Annie

Annie — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:46:55 +0000

Doro: I totally hear you on that. I’ve dieted and tried to gain weight on many occasions for that very reason.

Mgreen: But it is self-denial. Here, I’ll use myself as an example. I earn about $13-15k a year in take home pay, which qualifies me as poor in the eyes of most North Americans. Since getting a second job, I no longer have to choose between food and rent (yay!), but I do make choices of self denial on a regular basis. For example, I don’t own a TV (and if I had one, I wouldn’t have cable). I could, technically, afford to buy a TV and have cable, because that would cost about as much as a bus pass each month, and since I live fairly close to my workplaces I could walk there instead of taking the bus. I would love to have cable, but I am intentionally denying myself of that pleasure in favour of something that, while still a luxury, is a bit more practical. See? I’m forgoing one desire in favour of another. are many things that I could technically do and buy, even with my limited income. I could afford to buy designer shoes occasionally (and believe me, I would love to), but that would mean giving up something more essential – perhaps eating nothing but barley and lentils for 6 months, instead of my usual well balanced diet (including fresh produce). It depends on your priorities, and obviously not everyone can afford to make the same choices I can (I have no children and I am very lucky to have cheap housing). But it is all about choices, even if those choices are limited by circumstances.

I don’t mean this to sound like poor people get into the situation of being poor because of choices – just that there is always going to be an element of self denial in a poor person’s life. Rent or food? Cable or savings? Starving for a week and a meal at a nice restaurant or regular meals at home every night? It may not be my choice to be in the situation I’m in, but I can at least decide what I want to do with my resources.

By: mgreen

mgreen — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:18:06 +0000

“I try to explain to them that being poor is like living a life of self-denial.”
Except that the two are totally unrelated. “Being poor” usually implies (at least to me) that the person who is poor is in that place due to lack of education, bad choices, or other external circumstances-in short, to say that someone is poor implies that they are in a place that they would not choose. Those who live a life of self-denial forego certain material possessions, not because they can’t afford them, but because they see a cost of owning that possession that transcends the price tag. In other words, the person who practices self-denial might desire an item, but they desire something else more. On any given day, there are plenty of things that I see in my Inbox or mailbox that I would love to buy. I can even afford to buy some of those things. The question is not “Do I want that shiny game system or plasma screen TV or shoes or cars or 2,749 channels of digital-clear crap that I will never watch anyway?” The question is, “what am I going to have to forego to own this?” “What will I pay to enjoy and use this thing?” As long as we live lives that are devoid of a purpose that is outside of ourselves, we will always desire the “stuff,” because that is all there is. “Hope and the absence of fear and worry” are not things that come with stuff. They don’t come as standard options on a new car. They are not thrown in when we open the 401(k), and they certainly do not reside in the “nice” neighborhoods in town. Real hope and real peace are things that are given to us, and then they change our worldview and our actions. For me, my relationship with God has provided that hope and peace (I can see the smirks now).

I think one thing that the current credit crisis has shown us is that the pursuit of stuff (and ensuing enslavement) is not limited to one race or social status.

By the way, I came from a middle-class family. Yes, my parents paid to put me through college, but my Mom did extra jobs to make that happen. It came from a promise that she made to her children over thirty years ago, and I am grateful to both of my parents for their sacrifices that enabled their children to pursue further education-even if that degree did not hold the promise of a lucrative career. Generalizations like the one made above by timeismine show that we are still a long way off from getting it. Again, it is not about your social status or political views or income level. What do you believe, and how does it affect your life?

By: Doro

Doro — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:44:13 +0000

I’m currently trying to lose weight. Not because I desperately want to, but because my clothes don’t fit anymore and I don’t have the money to buy new ones.

I’m from a lower middle class family and when my father died, we suddenly became poor. It really doesn’t take that much, but many of my friends never experienced what it’s like not to be able to buy that PlayStation or to travel somewhere twice a year. And what they can understand even less is that I view their behaviour as very bizarre and wonder how they survive.

By: Annebonannie

Annebonannie — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:30:29 +0000

“If it seems unreal to me now, it probably seems like exaggeration and lies to someone who has never thought to look past his or her own privilege.”

Fantine, you said so much with that one sentence.

By: Fantine

Fantine — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:59:10 +0000

As someone who has been both desperately poor (as in having to choose between buying food and paying rent) and has pulled herself up to lower-middle-class, I can tell you that your description of constant denial is extremely accurate. And it’s really easy to lose sight of that if you’ve either never experienced it or have been away from it for a while. I’ve been comfortably lower-middle-class for a good five years or so now, and sometimes I look back to the things I went through and the sacrifices I made and wonder how I survived. If it seems unreal to me now, it probably seems like exaggeration and lies to someone who has never thought to look past his or her own privilege.

By: timeismine

timeismine — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:44:38 +0000

Not to mention, people who have always been able to afford new aren’t aware of how cheaply some things can be had… brand name jeans at the Salvation Army and so forth. They think that everyone must have spent what they would have spent… not the case, obviously. Lots of us inherit TVs and other big ticket items from family or friends when they upgrade. And people’s economic circumstances change; the TV might have been purchased in better times. All examples of things students who parents pay to put them through college might not think about.

By: Hank

Hank — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:20:48 +0000

@Megan: I hear you on the TV thing. I’m pretty sure I knew at least one family in my hometown that had a television — but no electricity. My best friend’s family had XBoxes, Gamecubes, and DirecTV — but couldn’t afford to pay the telephone bill.

I never realized how poor of an area I lived in until I went off to university. Hell, I didn’t realize how little my own household was bringing in until then.

By: AlexB

AlexB — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:06:07 +0000

Well put. Jagdish Bhagwati argues this (rather egregiously) in his book, “In Defense of Globalization”. I’m all about capitalism, but I’m frustrated by the number of academics who defend of capitalism, but do not acknowledge the role that capitalism might play in reinforcing systemic forces of oppression. I wish I find some research that addresses this. I would like to believe capitalism can be part of the solution, but the more I learn, the more my belief in the invisible hand deteriorates.

By: Laurel

Laurel — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:11:15 +0000

I find it very interesting that someone could believe that everyone who wants a television owns one. I went five years without a television because I could not afford even a small used one, and I still know people who cannot afford a television as well as many more who cannot afford cable for their television.
I think that the issue with Nike shoes is more about perception than anything. First, we are assuming that the person wearing the Nike shoes is poor based on other aspects of their appearance, when they could very well be spending less money on clothes in order to afford the shoes, or maybe we caught them on laundry day. Also, I believe that we are more likely to notice the poor people who are wearing what appear to be expensive shoes, as it fits preconceptions of why the poor are poor, and it allows the middle class to continue living a more privileged existence without less concern over the inadequate social programs. It is one of many ways that we blame the poor for their own poverty, rather than blaming a system that allows some people to afford a closet full of Nike shoes, while others cannot afford a television.

By: links for 2009-06-15 « Embololalia

links for 2009-06-15 « Embololalia — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:07:20 +0000

[...] Sociological Images » Poverty, Self-Denial, And New Nikes Teaching relatively class privileged students about why poor people can’t just pull themselves up by their bootstraps can be extremely challenging. One of the things that they harp on is their impression that the poor spend money on frivolous things; somehow they believe that, if the poor just eschewed cable television and Nikes, they would pop up into the middle class. (tags: class income firstworldpoverty) [...]