Kinda falls a little flat when you hear what Mr Manning has to say about it;

In Frankie Mannings own words (Youtube video & his book) the dance routine for HELLZAPOPPIN was finalised in New York before the troupe set out for the studios on the West coast….and unchanged by the movie choreographers or film makers.

@ George, the answer to “why don’t more members of this disadvantaged group want to play with us?!” is almost always “because you are making them uncomfortable with your privilege.”

I only say almost always to allow for the handful of personal experiences that I’m sure some people have overcome their kneejerk reactions to preserve their privilege, but I’m skeptical. Most “movements” can’t do that as a whole.

How about this:most young POC’s don’t get involved because it’s not the ‘in’ thing to do and its not rap, hip-hop, or any other kind of dance music popular now. It’s their ‘grandparent’s music’, and therefore too old for them. More often than not, that is the truth, and not ‘white privilege’.

Of course, now that some schools have ballroom dancing clubs/classes, that might change….

Its obvious that the servants dresses in Hellzapoppin are a racist concession, but it never occurred to me that the wild dancing might be also a concession to the stereotype of a black dancer being wild, raw, animalistic.

I think you made a point here, although it more comfortable to think this is only “energy”.

It’s interesting to look at some other old videos: In the older, famous short “After seben” it seems to me that the couple dancing is less theatrical, wild, eye-rolling. It is of course also missing the not-yet-invented aerials.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di5eYAtf0f0
On the other hand this short also features an eccentric/comic white dancer (in black face), who is probably playing the role of the wild black man. If you take a look at the spirit moves, you will also see a lot of this excentric dancing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcqYQC0_t3I

Talking about todays dancing, I see quite little of this eccentric dancing, to me it seems that – besides aerials – the dancing is much more “smooth”. E.g. compare the eccentric dancers to Kevin and Carla:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5MfjuhYbXc

Viewed with today’s eyes, to me many of the old dancers have an almost awkward, weird way of moving there body and especially their legs and joints.

– Fabian

Disclaimer: I’m not a native speaker, so I hope this was politically correct :)

I only say almost always to allow for the handful of personal experiences that I’m sure some people have overcome their kneejerk reactions to preserve their privilege, but I’m skeptical. Most “movements” can’t do that as a whole.

That said, I think it is somewhat offensive to describe “white people” that today enjoy Lindy Hop as “naive” about the white/black culture crash that surrounded the evolution of Lindy Hop. To me it smells of trying to impose some sort of guilt trip on white Lindy Hoppers that is not at all deserved.

Moreover, the fact that so few members of the black race involve themselves in this undeniably black dance style has forever puzzled contemporary Lindy Hoppers dedicated to this vintage dance. In fact, a thread titled “Why So Few?” ran forever on Yehoodi.com to discuss this very topic; with no real resolution I might add.

I will forever maintain that the answer to “Why So Few?” certainly isn’t because anyone of any race has been systematically prevented from enjoying this dance we want to share with everybody. The fact that the Savoy Ballroom, the very birthplace of Lindy Hop, was integrated long before anyplace else in New York (perhaps America) was, is something that all Lindy Hoppers are proud of AND proud to see continue.

Evan has it just right. As a person with a trained eye for lindy hop, I see two things:

(1) I see incredibly effective technique. Unbelievable strength and precision. It’s fantastic. (2) But I also see, layered onto and facilitated by that technique, an effort to make the dance appear more out-of-control than it is. They are wild-ing the dance.

At least, that’s how it looks to me.

For white audiences of the time, Jazz was Hot Black jungle music – Black people were sex crazy hedonists, and you can see it in the moves, the exaggerated body undulation. the speed. the sweat. the rhythmical drum.

It was like watching a tribe around a fire. Later generations, like the young white kids who brought it to the sock hop, made it their own by stiffening it and gave it better posture. they “technicalize” it.

They made dance competitions into competitive dance we see today. Something that can be judged, analyzed and benchmarked.

I think that is a notable difference

We watched those movies religiously. Stopped and rewound (VHS of course). We copied moves we saw, clothing and language.

For us it was reliving a golden age in Harlem which race had nothing to do with. I guess you could say we projected the optimism and racial togetherness of the late nineties on what we saw.

When we heard Frankie was coming to town – it was as if the pope himself was coming. I anticipated for weeks, planned my 3-piece zoot suite days ahead of time. Green tie, yellow shirt, red zoot suit and gold chain.

He taught us all the electric slide. I will never forget it.

I completely understand what you say about the setting/context, and I completely agree.

My question was more in regard to the line I quoted from the blog post, which seemed to suggest that the performances themselves (which I took as including the dance moves specifically) were adjusted to appeal to a white audience and according to racial ethos of the time. I was just wondering if anyone could comment on how the dance moves might have been adjusted to appeal to a white audience, since I thought that was what the post suggested.

What’s even sadder than the “ooh, we’re going into the black part of town!” setting of the Day At The Races clip is that when the Marx Bros put out The Big Store about a decade later, there was a swing dance clip in that too – done by all white dancers. Some of the same extras from the Day At The Races scene are also in that number, but only singing a ditty about (I am not making this up) picking cotton. To advertise cotton clothing being sold by and for white people.

To be fair, the flashy moves used in performances are definitely descended from the old clips, but social dancing has perhaps somewhat less baggage. It makes me happy to know that the Savoy was an integrated ballroom.

I like to know about the history of lindy hop and jazz dances, and I totally realize how weird it is to go dancing with a mostly-white crowd. It reminds me of this: http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/11/18/116-black-music-that-black-people-dont-listen-to-anymore/