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	<title>Comments on: Are Chinese Americans Real Americans? Or, Why Can&#8217;t You All Go by “Kathy”?</title>
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	<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/</link>
	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 14:45:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Sociological Images &#187; Excluding Blacks From The National Collective</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-34947</link>
		<dc:creator>Sociological Images &#187; Excluding Blacks From The National Collective</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 16:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-34947</guid>
		<description>[...] see an earlier post on this subject with some really great material and this post on whether Chinese Americans are real Americans.          tags: academia, history, knowledge, methods/use of data, opinion, politics, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] see an earlier post on this subject with some really great material and this post on whether Chinese Americans are real Americans.          tags: academia, history, knowledge, methods/use of data, opinion, politics, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ben "O." Ostrowsky</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-28079</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben "O." Ostrowsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-28079</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s an article in the New York Times this week about the Chinese government telling Chinese people to have names that are more &#039;normal&#039;:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/world/asia/21china.html

&quot;The bureau’s computers, however, are programmed to read only 32,252 of the roughly 55,000 Chinese characters, according to a 2006 government report.&quot;

It&#039;s an unusual number, but I&#039;m guessing it can really handle 32,768 (2^15) and 516 of them have been reserved.  Which, to me, suggests that they also could have planned for 65,536 (2^16) characters and had plenty of room.

So, to me, this looks like a case of thoughtless programming stealing people&#039;s rightful names.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an article in the New York Times this week about the Chinese government telling Chinese people to have names that are more &#8216;normal&#8217;:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/world/asia/21china.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/world/asia/21china.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The bureau’s computers, however, are programmed to read only 32,252 of the roughly 55,000 Chinese characters, according to a 2006 government report.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s an unusual number, but I&#8217;m guessing it can really handle 32,768 (2^15) and 516 of them have been reserved.  Which, to me, suggests that they also could have planned for 65,536 (2^16) characters and had plenty of room.</p>
<p>So, to me, this looks like a case of thoughtless programming stealing people&#8217;s rightful names.</p>
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		<title>By: altairian</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-25331</link>
		<dc:creator>altairian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 19:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-25331</guid>
		<description>&quot;Unable to pronounce&quot; is different than &quot;needs to be changed,&quot; yeah? There&#039;s a lot of things I can&#039;t pronounce (folks in my part of the world have a habit of just skipping over troublesome syllables as if they were meant to be &quot;silent&quot; all along), but I wager Italians/Germans/etc are not often told they should change their name for the ease of all the &quot;real Americans&quot; who can&#039;t read or say it. 

This is currently an issue with people with Arabic names, too. I knew a guy named Hazem -- which is pronounced just like it looks, like &quot;Racist tendencies? Betty Brown &lt;b&gt;has &#039;em&lt;/b&gt; -- but was still pressured/forced to use the name &quot;Moe&quot; at his workplace. Many of his friends went by silly, &quot;all-American&quot; names like Bob, Bill, Joe, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Unable to pronounce&#8221; is different than &#8220;needs to be changed,&#8221; yeah? There&#8217;s a lot of things I can&#8217;t pronounce (folks in my part of the world have a habit of just skipping over troublesome syllables as if they were meant to be &#8220;silent&#8221; all along), but I wager Italians/Germans/etc are not often told they should change their name for the ease of all the &#8220;real Americans&#8221; who can&#8217;t read or say it. </p>
<p>This is currently an issue with people with Arabic names, too. I knew a guy named Hazem &#8212; which is pronounced just like it looks, like &#8220;Racist tendencies? Betty Brown <b>has &#8216;em</b> &#8212; but was still pressured/forced to use the name &#8220;Moe&#8221; at his workplace. Many of his friends went by silly, &#8220;all-American&#8221; names like Bob, Bill, Joe, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24973</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24973</guid>
		<description>&quot;...she is more interested in assimilation to U.S. culture than the idea of a melting pot.&quot;

I always though of &quot;the melting pot&quot; as assimilation. It&#039;s a bad metaphor, because when you think of it, when you melt something, it&#039;s original property is changed. I think this is a perfect example of the melting pot mentality. Immigrants come and are expected to be part of the homogeneous group. They are expected to &quot;act American&quot; for the comfort of everyone else, instead of incorporating the American identity, whatever that may be, into their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;she is more interested in assimilation to U.S. culture than the idea of a melting pot.&#8221;</p>
<p>I always though of &#8220;the melting pot&#8221; as assimilation. It&#8217;s a bad metaphor, because when you think of it, when you melt something, it&#8217;s original property is changed. I think this is a perfect example of the melting pot mentality. Immigrants come and are expected to be part of the homogeneous group. They are expected to &#8220;act American&#8221; for the comfort of everyone else, instead of incorporating the American identity, whatever that may be, into their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Bagelsan</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24745</link>
		<dc:creator>Bagelsan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 05:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24745</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;“Somehow we (as a country) have managed to pronounce German and Eastern European names”

As someone who can probably count on one hand the number of times his (Italian) last name was pronounced properly on the first try, I disagree…&lt;/i&gt;

Word. My last name is German (a whole whopping 5 letters long, too!) and I&#039;m constantly astonished at how many ways people find to mispronounce and misspell it. I&#039;d change to a name like &quot;Ko&quot; in a heartbeat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“Somehow we (as a country) have managed to pronounce German and Eastern European names”</p>
<p>As someone who can probably count on one hand the number of times his (Italian) last name was pronounced properly on the first try, I disagree…</i></p>
<p>Word. My last name is German (a whole whopping 5 letters long, too!) and I&#8217;m constantly astonished at how many ways people find to mispronounce and misspell it. I&#8217;d change to a name like &#8220;Ko&#8221; in a heartbeat.</p>
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		<title>By: Titanis walleri</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24554</link>
		<dc:creator>Titanis walleri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24554</guid>
		<description>&quot;Somehow we (as a country) have managed to pronounce German and Eastern European names&quot;
As someone who can probably count on one hand the number of times his (Italian) last name was pronounced properly on the first try, I disagree...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Somehow we (as a country) have managed to pronounce German and Eastern European names&#8221;<br />
As someone who can probably count on one hand the number of times his (Italian) last name was pronounced properly on the first try, I disagree&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24550</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 19:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24550</guid>
		<description>Yeah, if you read the transcript, she&#039;s just being mildly racist, not incredibly offensive (seriously).

There&#039;s stuff like &quot;your citizens&quot; and &quot;it will work for us&quot; and &quot;the Americans&quot; which reveals that she thinks that Asian-Americans, especially immigrants with funny names, are in some sense not &quot;real&quot; Americans like herself.

Speaking to Ramey Ko, she says, &quot;I see a need here for young people like you, who are obviously very bright, to come up with something that would work for you, and then let us see if it will work for us,&quot; which sounds both well-meaning and slightly racist to my ears.

But the uproar over this has been a bit much.  She was musing about how to solve the problem of Asian voters having difficulties at the poll station, and she explicitly said &quot;I&#039;m not talking about changing your name, I&#039;m talking about the transliteration.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, if you read the transcript, she&#8217;s just being mildly racist, not incredibly offensive (seriously).</p>
<p>There&#8217;s stuff like &#8220;your citizens&#8221; and &#8220;it will work for us&#8221; and &#8220;the Americans&#8221; which reveals that she thinks that Asian-Americans, especially immigrants with funny names, are in some sense not &#8220;real&#8221; Americans like herself.</p>
<p>Speaking to Ramey Ko, she says, &#8220;I see a need here for young people like you, who are obviously very bright, to come up with something that would work for you, and then let us see if it will work for us,&#8221; which sounds both well-meaning and slightly racist to my ears.</p>
<p>But the uproar over this has been a bit much.  She was musing about how to solve the problem of Asian voters having difficulties at the poll station, and she explicitly said &#8220;I&#8217;m not talking about changing your name, I&#8217;m talking about the transliteration.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24524</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24524</guid>
		<description>I think if you look at the transcript, what she said wasn&#039;t as outrageous as it seems. 

She wasn&#039;t talking about changing their names, only the transliteration into the latin alphabet. There isn&#039;t a standard system and apparently it&#039;s confusing. The witness himself actually brought up the issue as an obstacle for the asian community in voting.

of course the implication of &quot;you and your citizens&quot; is still pretty bad...

&quot;One suggestion off the top of my head would be some type of provision addressing the problem with names. That’s actually one of the most frequently noted problems that happened in the 2008 election, which is the problem with a lot of voters having problems because their names didn’t match.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if you look at the transcript, what she said wasn&#8217;t as outrageous as it seems. </p>
<p>She wasn&#8217;t talking about changing their names, only the transliteration into the latin alphabet. There isn&#8217;t a standard system and apparently it&#8217;s confusing. The witness himself actually brought up the issue as an obstacle for the asian community in voting.</p>
<p>of course the implication of &#8220;you and your citizens&#8221; is still pretty bad&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;One suggestion off the top of my head would be some type of provision addressing the problem with names. That’s actually one of the most frequently noted problems that happened in the 2008 election, which is the problem with a lot of voters having problems because their names didn’t match.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeannie</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24500</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeannie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24500</guid>
		<description>She thinks it isn&#039;t about race, but unfortunately it is. 

Sure, let&#039;s have them all change their names like Native Americans were forced to in schools back in the day, and like the African slaves who were forced to when they were brought here.

I think she just needs to learn how to read (names).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She thinks it isn&#8217;t about race, but unfortunately it is. </p>
<p>Sure, let&#8217;s have them all change their names like Native Americans were forced to in schools back in the day, and like the African slaves who were forced to when they were brought here.</p>
<p>I think she just needs to learn how to read (names).</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24499</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24499</guid>
		<description>If she is suggesting that people of Asian ancestry are renamed for the ease of &quot;Americans&quot;, it wouldn&#039;t be the first time. My Grandmother was renamed &quot;Mary&quot; (from Kikuye) on her first day at school. This was a common practice, and there are actually a disproportionate number of older Japanese ladies named Mary in our community. Homogenization isn&#039;t the answer. Somehow we (as a country) have managed to pronounce German and Eastern European names (and many others that were once thought of as &quot;other&quot;) without having to learn the &quot;rather difficult&quot; languages associated with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If she is suggesting that people of Asian ancestry are renamed for the ease of &#8220;Americans&#8221;, it wouldn&#8217;t be the first time. My Grandmother was renamed &#8220;Mary&#8221; (from Kikuye) on her first day at school. This was a common practice, and there are actually a disproportionate number of older Japanese ladies named Mary in our community. Homogenization isn&#8217;t the answer. Somehow we (as a country) have managed to pronounce German and Eastern European names (and many others that were once thought of as &#8220;other&#8221;) without having to learn the &#8220;rather difficult&#8221; languages associated with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Duran</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24494</link>
		<dc:creator>Duran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24494</guid>
		<description>This is pretty ridiculous.   Perhaps my neighbor who&#039;s Polish should change his name to something more pronouncible as well (currently, it&#039;s Szczepanski).

I do think however that Chinese-American citizens (in fact, all citizens) need to make doubly sure that their name is stated the same way in all official documentation.  My last name is fairly common, but has multiple spellings.  I often find errors, fortunately, none so far in critical documentation like driver&#039;s license, passport, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is pretty ridiculous.   Perhaps my neighbor who&#8217;s Polish should change his name to something more pronouncible as well (currently, it&#8217;s Szczepanski).</p>
<p>I do think however that Chinese-American citizens (in fact, all citizens) need to make doubly sure that their name is stated the same way in all official documentation.  My last name is fairly common, but has multiple spellings.  I often find errors, fortunately, none so far in critical documentation like driver&#8217;s license, passport, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: SarahMC</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24474</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24474</guid>
		<description>Some of you clearly didn&#039;t read the story.  Here&#039;s part of what Brown said:

&quot;Rather than everyone here having to learn Chinese — I understand it’s a rather difficult language — do you think that it would behoove you and your citizens to adopt a name that we could deal with more readily here?&quot; 

She said that to an American citizen named Ramsey Ko.  Real hard to read and pronounce, huh?  And &quot;you and your citizens?&quot;  What the hell does that mean?  Sounds like Brown finds English to be a rather difficult language.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of you clearly didn&#8217;t read the story.  Here&#8217;s part of what Brown said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Rather than everyone here having to learn Chinese — I understand it’s a rather difficult language — do you think that it would behoove you and your citizens to adopt a name that we could deal with more readily here?&#8221; </p>
<p>She said that to an American citizen named Ramsey Ko.  Real hard to read and pronounce, huh?  And &#8220;you and your citizens?&#8221;  What the hell does that mean?  Sounds like Brown finds English to be a rather difficult language.</p>
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		<title>By: yikes</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24468</link>
		<dc:creator>yikes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24468</guid>
		<description>She meant existing Americans as opposed to people coming into America (not yet American) and transliterating names for the first time.

Sure, she&#039;s old, white, and Southern, but she is trying to understand.
Southern people often think of those in the next *county* as not as authentic as they themselves are--that doesn&#039;t mean they hate them, or denigrate them.

Plus, she is not talking about &quot;easier to deal with&quot; in everyday life, but in a specific bureaucratic situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She meant existing Americans as opposed to people coming into America (not yet American) and transliterating names for the first time.</p>
<p>Sure, she&#8217;s old, white, and Southern, but she is trying to understand.<br />
Southern people often think of those in the next *county* as not as authentic as they themselves are&#8211;that doesn&#8217;t mean they hate them, or denigrate them.</p>
<p>Plus, she is not talking about &#8220;easier to deal with&#8221; in everyday life, but in a specific bureaucratic situation.</p>
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		<title>By: nora</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24458</link>
		<dc:creator>nora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24458</guid>
		<description>i dont think thats entirely what she was trying to say. if you watch the whole video it seems to me like she was talking about standardizing transliteration of names in order to make documentation easier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i dont think thats entirely what she was trying to say. if you watch the whole video it seems to me like she was talking about standardizing transliteration of names in order to make documentation easier.</p>
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		<title>By: Carla</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/13/are-chinese-americans-real-americans-or-why-cant-you-all-go-by-kathy/comment-page-1/#comment-24430</link>
		<dc:creator>Carla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8366#comment-24430</guid>
		<description>TM: Because she didn&#039;t say &quot;Americans (who are unfamiliar with names of Chinese origin),&quot; she just said &quot;Americans.&quot;  As in, Chinese-Americans (with difficult names) aren&#039;t as authentically American as herself.  

Imagine it this way...someone complaining about black women naming their children x, and some white woman saying &quot;You really need to think about changing it, AMERICANS are having a hard time pronouncing it.&quot;  Its the same idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TM: Because she didn&#8217;t say &#8220;Americans (who are unfamiliar with names of Chinese origin),&#8221; she just said &#8220;Americans.&#8221;  As in, Chinese-Americans (with difficult names) aren&#8217;t as authentically American as herself.  </p>
<p>Imagine it this way&#8230;someone complaining about black women naming their children x, and some white woman saying &#8220;You really need to think about changing it, AMERICANS are having a hard time pronouncing it.&#8221;  Its the same idea.</p>
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