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	<title>Comments on: Where are the Women? Where are the Men?</title>
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	<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/</link>
	<description>Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry.</description>
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		<title>By: Analiese&#8217;s Reading 5/2 &#124; Quiche Moraine</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-30210</link>
		<dc:creator>Analiese&#8217;s Reading 5/2 &#124; Quiche Moraine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 May 2009 12:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-30210</guid>
		<description>[...] Sociological Images [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sociological Images [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Emergent Culture - Deconstructing the Biblical &#8220;Fall of Man&#8221;: Insight into the Source of our Ancient and Modern Misery</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-29648</link>
		<dc:creator>Emergent Culture - Deconstructing the Biblical &#8220;Fall of Man&#8221;: Insight into the Source of our Ancient and Modern Misery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-29648</guid>
		<description>[...] WHERE ARE THE WOMEN? WHERE ARE THE MEN? Sociological Images SocProf, from The Global Sociology Blog, has an interesting post about gender in the public sphere. Here is a photo (from Echidne of the Snakes) of the “first spouses” of the G20 nations (that is, the spouses of the political leaders of the G20): [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] WHERE ARE THE WOMEN? WHERE ARE THE MEN? Sociological Images SocProf, from The Global Sociology Blog, has an interesting post about gender in the public sphere. Here is a photo (from Echidne of the Snakes) of the “first spouses” of the G20 nations (that is, the spouses of the political leaders of the G20): [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Zvan</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-24042</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Zvan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 13:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-24042</guid>
		<description>@Liz: I object to your objection to the use of the word airbrushing. It is not, in fact, a photoshop tool that would be used for most photographic manipulation. The term refers to historical, pre-photoshop methods of photographic manipulation and could just as easily been called gum-bicromate painting; that just doesn&#039;t roll off the tongue as easily. Copy-and-paste, match color, and patch were probably what they used here and I don&#039;t think any of those terms sufficiently convey the offense that they perpetrated either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Liz: I object to your objection to the use of the word airbrushing. It is not, in fact, a photoshop tool that would be used for most photographic manipulation. The term refers to historical, pre-photoshop methods of photographic manipulation and could just as easily been called gum-bicromate painting; that just doesn&#8217;t roll off the tongue as easily. Copy-and-paste, match color, and patch were probably what they used here and I don&#8217;t think any of those terms sufficiently convey the offense that they perpetrated either.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-22613</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 22:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-22613</guid>
		<description>I object to the use of the word &#039;airbrushing&#039;, because that&#039;s not what happened: those photos were edited, manipulated, or fabricated, but airbrushing is a specific photoshop tool for minor modification. You can&#039;t completely change the reality of a photograph with an airbrush, unless someone would like to tell me that those two male stand-ins are actually just drawings made with photoshop.

If you use the same word (airbrushing) for taking out a model&#039;s cellulite as well as removing heads of state from photographs, you trivialise what&#039;s been done. Digital editing is only going to become more and more common, and it&#039;s important to find the right words to explain how a photo has been altered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I object to the use of the word &#8216;airbrushing&#8217;, because that&#8217;s not what happened: those photos were edited, manipulated, or fabricated, but airbrushing is a specific photoshop tool for minor modification. You can&#8217;t completely change the reality of a photograph with an airbrush, unless someone would like to tell me that those two male stand-ins are actually just drawings made with photoshop.</p>
<p>If you use the same word (airbrushing) for taking out a model&#8217;s cellulite as well as removing heads of state from photographs, you trivialise what&#8217;s been done. Digital editing is only going to become more and more common, and it&#8217;s important to find the right words to explain how a photo has been altered.</p>
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		<title>By: Penny</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-22093</link>
		<dc:creator>Penny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-22093</guid>
		<description>I was wondering about the woman in the wheelchair also--who is she?  She&#039;s posed as if she expects to be in the picture, but someone along the way decided against that--why?  (hmmmmm, I wonder....seems like you can be old or young or tall or short or round or slim, but don&#039;t bring your wheels into the photo, eh?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was wondering about the woman in the wheelchair also&#8211;who is she?  She&#8217;s posed as if she expects to be in the picture, but someone along the way decided against that&#8211;why?  (hmmmmm, I wonder&#8230;.seems like you can be old or young or tall or short or round or slim, but don&#8217;t bring your wheels into the photo, eh?)</p>
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		<title>By: Endor</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-21738</link>
		<dc:creator>Endor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 17:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-21738</guid>
		<description>&quot;Yes, the ultra-orthodox find publishing pictures of women to be an offense to modesty, and so they’d rather distort the truth than publish a woman’s picture.&quot;

Sure, better to be misogynistic and HOLY, then honest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Yes, the ultra-orthodox find publishing pictures of women to be an offense to modesty, and so they’d rather distort the truth than publish a woman’s picture.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure, better to be misogynistic and HOLY, then honest.</p>
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		<title>By: Whit</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-21670</link>
		<dc:creator>Whit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-21670</guid>
		<description>Yes, the ultra-orthodox find publishing pictures of women to be an offense to modesty, and so they&#039;d rather distort the truth than publish a woman&#039;s picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the ultra-orthodox find publishing pictures of women to be an offense to modesty, and so they&#8217;d rather distort the truth than publish a woman&#8217;s picture.</p>
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		<title>By: Deleting women with photoshop - Crikey Team</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-21507</link>
		<dc:creator>Deleting women with photoshop - Crikey Team</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-21507</guid>
		<description>[...] Israeli cabinet was photoshopped by an ultra-orthodox newspaper to exclude the two female members. Sociological Images notes the trend for one gender power [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Israeli cabinet was photoshopped by an ultra-orthodox newspaper to exclude the two female members. Sociological Images notes the trend for one gender power [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ruchama</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-21490</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruchama</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-21490</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the Israeli one is about making women in politics invisible.  It&#039;s about making women &lt;i&gt;everywhere&lt;/i&gt; invisible.  The newspaper that published that photoshopped Cabinet picture would not have published the picture of the wives at all -- they don&#039;t publish pictures of women, period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the Israeli one is about making women in politics invisible.  It&#8217;s about making women <i>everywhere</i> invisible.  The newspaper that published that photoshopped Cabinet picture would not have published the picture of the wives at all &#8212; they don&#8217;t publish pictures of women, period.</p>
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		<title>By: gwen</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-21249</link>
		<dc:creator>gwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 06:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-21249</guid>
		<description>I think the point is less that this is representative cultural norms of gender, and more illustrative of the fact that while it&#039;s still possible to find these types of examples of women being made invisible (not just in Israel), the idea of airbrushing men out of a photo of government officials is hard to imagine happening anywhere. 

What is striking to me is how many photos of governments even in democracies that allow women to vote would look an awful lot like the second photo from the Israeli newspaper...without any airbrushing. And even if you left the women IN--I&#039;ve seen many photos of important officials of various countries in which women (as well as racial minorities) are often nearly non-existent, or hold the positions traditionally allotted to members of their group (so there&#039;s a woman in a cabinet position related to the family or something like that, since clearly that&#039;s a &quot;women&#039;s&quot; position).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the point is less that this is representative cultural norms of gender, and more illustrative of the fact that while it&#8217;s still possible to find these types of examples of women being made invisible (not just in Israel), the idea of airbrushing men out of a photo of government officials is hard to imagine happening anywhere. </p>
<p>What is striking to me is how many photos of governments even in democracies that allow women to vote would look an awful lot like the second photo from the Israeli newspaper&#8230;without any airbrushing. And even if you left the women IN&#8211;I&#8217;ve seen many photos of important officials of various countries in which women (as well as racial minorities) are often nearly non-existent, or hold the positions traditionally allotted to members of their group (so there&#8217;s a woman in a cabinet position related to the family or something like that, since clearly that&#8217;s a &#8220;women&#8217;s&#8221; position).</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-21246</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 06:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-21246</guid>
		<description>Wow, this was an interesting post. Thanks for putting this up. I feel as though I learned something here. 

p.s. Dubi, there is a woman, in the first photo, who is in a wheelchair. Her face was cropped out, along with the woman above her. I would agree from an early statement that this is ableism at work. While I don&#039;t know a lot about the political side of this, I feel as though I can understand the argument about, how politically and sexist driven, was the reporting of these papers. In the first photo (unless this photo is not an accurate), statements are made about who is allowed to take up public space. Many of the women in the first photo are not made clearly visible. Without cropping, in my opinion, this photo shows how patriarchy scripts how these (very powerful) women, are viewed; not ever to be as powerful as men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, this was an interesting post. Thanks for putting this up. I feel as though I learned something here. </p>
<p>p.s. Dubi, there is a woman, in the first photo, who is in a wheelchair. Her face was cropped out, along with the woman above her. I would agree from an early statement that this is ableism at work. While I don&#8217;t know a lot about the political side of this, I feel as though I can understand the argument about, how politically and sexist driven, was the reporting of these papers. In the first photo (unless this photo is not an accurate), statements are made about who is allowed to take up public space. Many of the women in the first photo are not made clearly visible. Without cropping, in my opinion, this photo shows how patriarchy scripts how these (very powerful) women, are viewed; not ever to be as powerful as men.</p>
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		<title>By: Dubi</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-21242</link>
		<dc:creator>Dubi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 06:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-21242</guid>
		<description>Oh, Leontine was talking about the other picture. ignore that comment then...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, Leontine was talking about the other picture. ignore that comment then&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dubi</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-21222</link>
		<dc:creator>Dubi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 03:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-21222</guid>
		<description>Leontine - none of the cabinet members, male or female, are using wheelchairs. Sofa Landver (new minister of immigration) is just short.

Now, about the picture as a whole, let&#039;s make a few things clear:
This paper, Yated Neeman, serves a very small population in Israel (I estimate about 2-3 percent of the population of Israel is in the target demographics). Their practices are in no way indicative of the general Israeli media, and the picture as it was originally taken appeared in many more copies than in the touched-up version.
Drawing any conclusions from this extremist group about &quot;gendered spaces&quot;, I feel, is as sensible as drawing conclusions about public sentiments towards psychiatry from a scientology convention.

An interesting note: Livnat, the minister standing between the (sitting down) PM Netanyahu and President Peres, was replaced with one of the ultra-orthodox ministers who was positioned at the edge of the picture - thus giving him a far more prominent position in the image(*). I don&#039;t know if this image is a copy of the complete picture as published in the paper - a couple of the ministers on the right hand side are cut out -- it&#039;s a big government! -- while people on the left were just sort of squished together - but I thought this particular choice was an interesting one.


(*) Yahadut Hatorah, the party that represents the public of Yated Ne&#039;eman, is not in the coalition, and even if they did, they oppose having ministers (because that would make them part of the Zionist state, which they oppose), preferring to have vice-ministers in departments that don&#039;t have any ministers - sort of having their pie and eating it too. The minister who replaced Livnat is from Shas, representing the Mizrahi (Middle-Eastern) ultra-orthodox public. These two groups are not very fond of one another most of the time, but still.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leontine &#8211; none of the cabinet members, male or female, are using wheelchairs. Sofa Landver (new minister of immigration) is just short.</p>
<p>Now, about the picture as a whole, let&#8217;s make a few things clear:<br />
This paper, Yated Neeman, serves a very small population in Israel (I estimate about 2-3 percent of the population of Israel is in the target demographics). Their practices are in no way indicative of the general Israeli media, and the picture as it was originally taken appeared in many more copies than in the touched-up version.<br />
Drawing any conclusions from this extremist group about &#8220;gendered spaces&#8221;, I feel, is as sensible as drawing conclusions about public sentiments towards psychiatry from a scientology convention.</p>
<p>An interesting note: Livnat, the minister standing between the (sitting down) PM Netanyahu and President Peres, was replaced with one of the ultra-orthodox ministers who was positioned at the edge of the picture &#8211; thus giving him a far more prominent position in the image(*). I don&#8217;t know if this image is a copy of the complete picture as published in the paper &#8211; a couple of the ministers on the right hand side are cut out &#8212; it&#8217;s a big government! &#8212; while people on the left were just sort of squished together &#8211; but I thought this particular choice was an interesting one.</p>
<p>(*) Yahadut Hatorah, the party that represents the public of Yated Ne&#8217;eman, is not in the coalition, and even if they did, they oppose having ministers (because that would make them part of the Zionist state, which they oppose), preferring to have vice-ministers in departments that don&#8217;t have any ministers &#8211; sort of having their pie and eating it too. The minister who replaced Livnat is from Shas, representing the Mizrahi (Middle-Eastern) ultra-orthodox public. These two groups are not very fond of one another most of the time, but still.</p>
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		<title>By: gwen</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-21155</link>
		<dc:creator>gwen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 23:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-21155</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know about the cropping--I posted it as I found it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know about the cropping&#8211;I posted it as I found it.</p>
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		<title>By: leontine</title>
		<link>http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/04/04/where-are-the-women-where-are-the-men/comment-page-1/#comment-21124</link>
		<dc:creator>leontine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Apr 2009 21:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=8142#comment-21124</guid>
		<description>Who cropped off the woman on the right who seems to be using a wheelchair?  Was she missing from the original picture?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who cropped off the woman on the right who seems to be using a wheelchair?  Was she missing from the original picture?</p>
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