Comments on: Orgasmic Birth and the Myth of the Vaginal Orgasm http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/ Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry. Fri, 25 May 2012 04:38:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Leigha http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-544296 Leigha Thu, 26 Jan 2012 03:50:00 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-544296 I doubt this will get answered, since it's 3 years old, but out of curiosity...if both clitoral and vaginal orgasms are technically clitoral, why do they feel completely different? I doubt this will get answered, since it’s 3 years old, but out of curiosity…if both clitoral and vaginal orgasms are technically clitoral, why do they feel completely different?

]]> By: Leigha http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-544295 Leigha Thu, 26 Jan 2012 03:48:00 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-544295 Um. You know. Except for that part where nearly all famous artists (from Vincent Van Gogh all the way down to Bob Ross) are men. Um. You know. Except for that part where nearly all famous artists (from Vincent Van Gogh all the way down to Bob Ross) are men.

]]> By: Idle Ethnographer http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-534241 Idle Ethnographer Sun, 18 Sep 2011 11:25:00 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-534241 indeed, more sociological posts on birth would be great. indeed, more sociological posts on birth would be great.

]]> By: sharqi http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-530931 sharqi Sat, 30 Jul 2011 23:48:00 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-530931 I was married for 16 years, and never once had a penetrative orgasm.  I only experienced orgasm through direct clitoral stimulation, and it was difficult at that.  I divorced and experienced a lot of life changes.  I now orgasm quite easily, definitely through penetration, but also through kissing or massage or simply loving touch. I'm six months pregnant now, and as I have sought information about childbirth, I read Ina May Gaskin's Spiritual Midwifery.  Here was a framework of childbirth that made sense to me.  Orgasmic birth makes sense to me.  I don't think Ina May, nor the director of the film imply that if you do not have an orgasmic birth, you are less than a woman.  By all means, our bodies and minds are completely different.  If I were expected to have an orgasmic birth the way I was expected to have an orgasm during sex while married, I would most likely not have one.  But knowing it's possible, and allowing my body and mind to entertain this possibility--well, I am certainly going to open myself up for whatever sensations I perceive happening.  And if I have a massive orgasm during birth, well, hooray!  It helps me personally to give away the fear and dread that most people who give birth in hospitals seem to have.  (I am planning on birthing in a hospital, because I cannot afford to have an illegal home birth.)  I think this is what the film is about:  the notion that other possibilities abound, whether or not people experience them as their own.  It's possible to have an ecstatic joyful birth, without fear.  It doesn't mean there's not pain, though some women don't experience birth as pain, but that women are strong.  I feel like birth is an initiation, and I for one am glad to be going through this experience.  I was married for 16 years, and never once had a penetrative orgasm.  I only experienced orgasm through direct clitoral stimulation, and it was difficult at that.  I divorced and experienced a lot of life changes.  I now orgasm quite easily, definitely through penetration, but also through kissing or massage or simply loving touch.

I’m six months pregnant now, and as I have sought information about childbirth, I read Ina May Gaskin’s Spiritual Midwifery.  Here was a framework of childbirth that made sense to me.  Orgasmic birth makes sense to me.  I don’t think Ina May, nor the director of the film imply that if you do not have an orgasmic birth, you are less than a woman.  By all means, our bodies and minds are completely different. 

If I were expected to have an orgasmic birth the way I was expected to have an orgasm during sex while married, I would most likely not have one.  But knowing it’s possible, and allowing my body and mind to entertain this possibility–well, I am certainly going to open myself up for whatever sensations I perceive happening.  And if I have a massive orgasm during birth, well, hooray!  It helps me personally to give away the fear and dread that most people who give birth in hospitals seem to have.  (I am planning on birthing in a hospital, because I cannot afford to have an illegal home birth.) 

I think this is what the film is about:  the notion that other possibilities abound, whether or not people experience them as their own.  It’s possible to have an ecstatic joyful birth, without fear.  It doesn’t mean there’s not pain, though some women don’t experience birth as pain, but that women are strong.  I feel like birth is an initiation, and I for one am glad to be going through this experience. 

]]> By: Lindsay Beyerstein http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-443691 Lindsay Beyerstein Wed, 02 Feb 2011 00:38:03 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-443691 Your standard orgasm is a spinal reflex that causes spasmodic contractions of the pelvic floor. The part of the spine that controls the reflex has both "bottom up" and "top down" inputs, i.e., nerve impulses from the genitals and input from the brain (which is processing all kinds of inputs from the senses, memory, fantasies, etc.). In theory, a person can reach the threshold of stimulation to trigger the reflex by any combination of bottom up or top down stimuli. For most people, most of the time, it takes both. We take this for granted in men because wet dreams and "coming in your pants" (sometimes without any direct genital stimulation at all) are well-known phenomena. The same is true of women. There are women who can orgasm from mental imagery alone. But most women need bottom up stimulation, and direct or indirect stimulation of the nerves of the clitoris is the most efficient "bottom up" way to deliver the stimulation to the spinal reflex center. Intercourse can supply both top down and bottom up stimulation. Depending on anatomy, position, and other factors, penetration can indirectly stimulate the same nerves that supply clitoris. Also, the woman's brain is processing all the other stimuli and meanings associated with intercourse, which can supply "top down" stimulation to the reflex center--depending on individual tastes, values, experiences, meanings ascribed to sex, and a host of other factors. I.e., if intercourse is an otherwise intensely erotic/emotional/sensually pleasurable experience for you, your brain may be sending input to the reflex centers in your spinal cord that tip the balance towards orgasm. Orgasms from vaginal penetration happen. There's no reason to elevate them above orgasms from any other stimulation or combination of stimuli. People are different. The same person responds differently at different times. It's all good. I have no trouble believing that birth can, under certain unusual circumstances, trigger the orgasm reflex. And if you /believe/ that birth can be orgasmic, and interpret the physical sensations through that lens, it's probably more likely. Women report this experience. Why would they lie? There are all kinds of hormonal and physical reasons that might trigger the reflex during labor. Then again, there are all kinds of factors that usually inhibit orgasm, like pain, a bunch of strangers watching you, the cultural assumption that childbirth is non-erotic. If it happens, it happens. But anyone who tells you that orgasms are the "natural" default mode that everyone would enjoy if only they got into the appropriately crunchy frame of mind is bullshitting you and probably selling something. The same goes for hucksters who tell you that one way of having a sex orgasm is better or more special or more natural than another. Your standard orgasm is a spinal reflex that causes spasmodic contractions of the pelvic floor. The part of the spine that controls the reflex has both “bottom up” and “top down” inputs, i.e., nerve impulses from the genitals and input from the brain (which is processing all kinds of inputs from the senses, memory, fantasies, etc.). In theory, a person can reach the threshold of stimulation to trigger the reflex by any combination of bottom up or top down stimuli. For most people, most of the time, it takes both.

We take this for granted in men because wet dreams and “coming in your pants” (sometimes without any direct genital stimulation at all) are well-known phenomena. The same is true of women. There are women who can orgasm from mental imagery alone. But most women need bottom up stimulation, and direct or indirect stimulation of the nerves of the clitoris is the most efficient “bottom up” way to deliver the stimulation to the spinal reflex center. Intercourse can supply both top down and bottom up stimulation.

Depending on anatomy, position, and other factors, penetration can indirectly stimulate the same nerves that supply clitoris.

Also, the woman’s brain is processing all the other stimuli and meanings associated with intercourse, which can supply “top down” stimulation to the reflex center–depending on individual tastes, values, experiences, meanings ascribed to sex, and a host of other factors. I.e., if intercourse is an otherwise intensely erotic/emotional/sensually pleasurable experience for you, your brain may be sending input to the reflex centers in your spinal cord that tip the balance towards orgasm.

Orgasms from vaginal penetration happen. There’s no reason to elevate them above orgasms from any other stimulation or combination of stimuli. People are different. The same person responds differently at different times. It’s all good.

I have no trouble believing that birth can, under certain unusual circumstances, trigger the orgasm reflex. And if you /believe/ that birth can be orgasmic, and interpret the physical sensations through that lens, it’s probably more likely.

Women report this experience. Why would they lie? There are all kinds of hormonal and physical reasons that might trigger the reflex during labor. Then again, there are all kinds of factors that usually inhibit orgasm, like pain, a bunch of strangers watching you, the cultural assumption that childbirth is non-erotic.

If it happens, it happens. But anyone who tells you that orgasms are the “natural” default mode that everyone would enjoy if only they got into the appropriately crunchy frame of mind is bullshitting you and probably selling something. The same goes for hucksters who tell you that one way of having a sex orgasm is better or more special or more natural than another.

]]> By: grumphis http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-352082 grumphis Thu, 29 Jul 2010 16:12:54 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-352082 my mother had five children (i am the oldest) and last year she told me she had orgasms with the first four of us. i'm not a teenager anymore, but there you go. it was a little awkward at first, but thinking about it, she had an orgasm when we were conceived, and that was a good thing, so why not during childbirth? it's not like she was sexually assaulting us as we came down the birth canal. it was surprising to her when it happened. she said having an orgasm during birth made her feel very connected to us during a time when she might have been scared (and the clinical nature of the hospital was very scary to her). i have heard stories about saints who received epiphanies from god, and those sounded very orgasmic- but they're not perceived dirty in our culture. maybe more women have orgasms during birth but because of the shame around female sexuality (and the incongruity of receiving pleasure from something that's supposed to be painful) we just don't talk about it. i'm a few years away from motherhood myself, but you can bet that i'm going to be looking out for that orgasm when i am in labour. and by the way, i have clitoral orgasms and vaginal orgasms and they are different things. my mother had five children (i am the oldest) and last year she told me she had orgasms with the first four of us. i’m not a teenager anymore, but there you go. it was a little awkward at first, but thinking about it, she had an orgasm when we were conceived, and that was a good thing, so why not during childbirth? it’s not like she was sexually assaulting us as we came down the birth canal. it was surprising to her when it happened.
she said having an orgasm during birth made her feel very connected to us during a time when she might have been scared (and the clinical nature of the hospital was very scary to her).
i have heard stories about saints who received epiphanies from god, and those sounded very orgasmic- but they’re not perceived dirty in our culture. maybe more women have orgasms during birth but because of the shame around female sexuality (and the incongruity of receiving pleasure from something that’s supposed to be painful) we just don’t talk about it.
i’m a few years away from motherhood myself, but you can bet that i’m going to be looking out for that orgasm when i am in labour.
and by the way, i have clitoral orgasms and vaginal orgasms and they are different things.

]]> By: Cats http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-264653 Cats Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:48:37 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-264653 Did you know that invented and defined are not the same word? When words have different meanings, they express different concepts. It's important to understand those different meanings/concepts in order to understand the context of a particular sentence. Compare: "Women have thus been defined sexually in terms of what pleases men" to "Men invented sex" These sentences are very different. They use different words, and express very different--and unrelated--concepts. Did you know that invented and defined are not the same word? When words have different meanings, they express different concepts. It’s important to understand those different meanings/concepts in order to understand the context of a particular sentence.

Compare:

“Women have thus been defined sexually in terms of what pleases men”

to

“Men invented sex”

These sentences are very different. They use different words, and express very different–and unrelated–concepts.

]]> By: Cats http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-264652 Cats Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:44:45 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-264652 It was neat to watch you immediately go from what <i>could</i> have been a vaguely coherent point to a total melt down about your own personal issues with art school women. The complete disgust and fear of women having a biological reaction as well as the way you couched "gender neutral" as "bitches better stfu" was really interesting as well. The "no son of mine" was the cherry on top of the whole thing. Well done! It was neat to watch you immediately go from what could have been a vaguely coherent point to a total melt down about your own personal issues with art school women. The complete disgust and fear of women having a biological reaction as well as the way you couched “gender neutral” as “bitches better stfu” was really interesting as well. The “no son of mine” was the cherry on top of the whole thing.

Well done!

]]> By: FN/ML (Friday Night Lights and/or FML) « Natter http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-264243 FN/ML (Friday Night Lights and/or FML) « Natter Sat, 10 Apr 2010 03:05:30 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-264243 [...] Everybody’s favorite topic: the Myth of the Vaginal Orgasm. [...] [...] Everybody’s favorite topic: the Myth of the Vaginal Orgasm. [...]

]]> By: SereniT03 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-264034 SereniT03 Fri, 09 Apr 2010 19:34:05 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-264034 I can say that it is untapped because there are many women who have been brainwashed to believe that their pleasure is not important during sex. Likewise there are many men who have been brainwashed to believe that there is only one way to get sexual pleasure. Neither I nor the videos I presented said that all people will be able to experience pleasure that way. In fact, the first video *specifically* says that not all women's prostates are sensitive. (Did you watch it? Because I think you'd find some common ground.) Some bodies are, and they deserve to explore and enjoy that pleasure. Of course nobody's bodies work the same way. Please point out where I implied that they are, and I will try to clarify. Just because the majority of women have been "receptive" to vaginal sex does not mean that they are being stimulated in right ways. I can say that it is untapped because there are many women who have been brainwashed to believe that their pleasure is not important during sex. Likewise there are many men who have been brainwashed to believe that there is only one way to get sexual pleasure.

Neither I nor the videos I presented said that all people will be able to experience pleasure that way. In fact, the first video *specifically* says that not all women’s prostates are sensitive. (Did you watch it? Because I think you’d find some common ground.) Some bodies are, and they deserve to explore and enjoy that pleasure.

Of course nobody’s bodies work the same way. Please point out where I implied that they are, and I will try to clarify.

Just because the majority of women have been “receptive” to vaginal sex does not mean that they are being stimulated in right ways.

]]> By: K http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-263976 K Fri, 09 Apr 2010 17:40:41 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-263976 Also, while most men have not been receptive during anal sex, the vast majority of women has been receptive during vaginal sex. You can hardly say that the G-spot is "untapped." Also, while most men have not been receptive during anal sex, the vast majority of women has been receptive during vaginal sex. You can hardly say that the G-spot is “untapped.”

]]> By: K http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-263973 K Fri, 09 Apr 2010 17:37:16 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-263973 Tons of women don't have a "sensitive" G-spot. It's thought that the positioning of the internal portion of the clitoris varies from person to person, and this affects just how pleasurable vaginal and anal stimulation are. Tons of women don’t have a “sensitive” G-spot.

It’s thought that the positioning of the internal portion of the clitoris varies from person to person, and this affects just how pleasurable vaginal and anal stimulation are.

]]> By: SereniT03 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-263969 SereniT03 Fri, 09 Apr 2010 17:26:56 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-263969 This video (link below) presents an alternative look at the argument. According to her, the jury is in, and the G-spot is the female prostate, which is just as it is for many men, an untapped sexual resource for many. Even if she's incorrect about the prostate, we now know how big the clitoris really is (as a previous commenter stated, but it really bears repeating). We know that it's not just the small button of tissue that we typically think of when we think of the word 'clitoris'. And as such, it's completely viable that the g-spot is simply the back of the clitoris. Its a source of unique pleasure (not better or worse, thats up to the individual, and it doesn't need to be hierarchical any way) because of the penetration that is necessary to come in contact with it. But one could say (if one disputes the female prostate) that all orgasms are clitoral. This vid is specifically about the g-spot http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6PwGcf7daI and here's one I like better, and the illustration is prettier too ;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toOVAFItR8U This video (link below) presents an alternative look at the argument. According to her, the jury is in, and the G-spot is the female prostate, which is just as it is for many men, an untapped sexual resource for many. Even if she’s incorrect about the prostate, we now know how big the clitoris really is (as a previous commenter stated, but it really bears repeating). We know that it’s not just the small button of tissue that we typically think of when we think of the word ‘clitoris’. And as such, it’s completely viable that the g-spot is simply the back of the clitoris. Its a source of unique pleasure (not better or worse, thats up to the individual, and it doesn’t need to be hierarchical any way) because of the penetration that is necessary to come in contact with it. But one could say (if one disputes the female prostate) that all orgasms are clitoral.

This vid is specifically about the g-spot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6PwGcf7daI

and here’s one I like better, and the illustration is prettier too ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toOVAFItR8U

]]> By: A Girl Thing » Sociological Images http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-263904 A Girl Thing » Sociological Images Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:32:01 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-263904 [...] See also Orgasmic Birth and the Myth of the Vaginal Orgasm. [...] [...] See also Orgasmic Birth and the Myth of the Vaginal Orgasm. [...]

]]> By: Anonymous http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/01/05/orgasmic-birth-and-the-myth-of-the-vaginal-orgasm/comment-page-1/#comment-253283 Anonymous Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:39:56 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=5752#comment-253283 I believe that every woman is unique and is entitled to her unique experiences. Whether we want to label a vaginal orgasm as occurring in the vagina, separate from the clitoris, or generated in part of the clitoral root, the point is that the woman achieved pleasure. These experiences should neither be belittled, nor exulted. In a loving relationship, both partners can experiment and create a lovemaking repertoire to something that is uniquely enjoyable for the both of them. I believe that every woman is unique and is entitled to her unique experiences. Whether we want to label a vaginal orgasm as occurring in the vagina, separate from the clitoris, or generated in part of the clitoral root, the point is that the woman achieved pleasure. These experiences should neither be belittled, nor exulted. In a loving relationship, both partners can experiment and create a lovemaking repertoire to something that is uniquely enjoyable for the both of them.

]]>