Comments on: How and Why People of Color are Included in Advertising: 6th in a Series http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/ Sociological Images encourages people to exercise and develop their sociological imaginations with discussions of compelling visuals that span the breadth of sociological inquiry. Fri, 25 May 2012 04:38:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: The Unspoken Truth – Women of Color in the Media | From LA to Istanbul http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-522923 The Unspoken Truth – Women of Color in the Media | From LA to Istanbul Sun, 17 Jul 2011 15:19:15 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-522923 [...] The Society Pages, American Plastic by Laurie Essing [...] [...] The Society Pages, American Plastic by Laurie Essing [...]

]]> By: Mara PT http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-491063 Mara PT Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:17:55 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-491063 well, in some cases yes. check out the former football star O.J. Simpson when he was arrested in 1994. His portrait was darkened for for Time and Newsweek magazines. Here the stereotype that "black" or dark connotes "evil" is really obvious. well, in some cases yes. check out the former football star O.J. Simpson when he was arrested in 1994. His portrait was darkened for for Time and Newsweek magazines.
Here the stereotype that “black” or dark connotes “evil” is really obvious.

]]> By: N/A http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-133970 N/A Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:18:09 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-133970 Bad as it is, its been a lot worse. And where have guys been. In 2006 City Council and Jesse Jackson Jr. pressure the big New York agencies with the help of the to force the ad ad agencies to provide scholarships in ethnic marketing at NYU. Further more in the same time period the U.S. Postal service was doing cutting edge work around messaging in a linguistic sense tailoring thier ad campaigns to specific ethnic groups i.e. First Nation. Latiino and African-American. This fight is one for the long haul. not it and run guerilla warfare. We need sustained grassroots type organized efforts. Commentary on the obvious like putting a periscope on submarine only plays into the big boys hands of non-aceptance, use of us as agencies accept for the good non threaten negroes(and I purposely use the pre1920 spelling to make my point we are not a noun in their eyes just adjective to be manipulated for cosmetic purposes of public relations and hipness. so when your ready to stop being the Invisible Man and dealing with Overseers I am ready. But watch out it not a game for the faint of heart. And there many a Shauka Zulu types in the mix that will not accept competition or being displace as the King of the game.Listen to Keisha Cole song with Tupac, and check out the legend of Biggie Smalls. It was not just a drive by. Ya feel me. Bad as it is, its been a lot worse. And where have guys been. In 2006 City Council and Jesse Jackson Jr. pressure the big New York agencies with the help of the to force the ad ad agencies to provide scholarships in ethnic marketing at NYU. Further more in the same time period the U.S. Postal service was doing cutting edge work around messaging in a linguistic sense tailoring thier ad campaigns to specific ethnic groups i.e. First Nation. Latiino and African-American. This fight is one for the long haul. not it and run guerilla warfare. We need sustained grassroots type organized efforts. Commentary on the obvious like putting a periscope on submarine only plays into the big boys hands of non-aceptance, use of us as agencies accept for the good non threaten negroes(and I purposely use the pre1920 spelling to make my point we are not a noun in their eyes just adjective to be manipulated for cosmetic purposes of public relations and hipness. so when your ready to stop being the Invisible Man and dealing with Overseers I am ready. But watch out it not a game for the faint of heart. And there many a Shauka Zulu types in the mix that will not accept competition or being displace as the King of the game.Listen to Keisha Cole song with Tupac, and check out the legend of Biggie Smalls. It was not just a drive by. Ya feel me.

]]> By: Sociological Images » HOW AND WHY PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE INCLUDED IN ADVERTISING: 9TH IN A SERIES http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-5967 Sociological Images » HOW AND WHY PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE INCLUDED IN ADVERTISING: 9TH IN A SERIES Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:06:21 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-5967 [...] am now discussing how they are included. Already I have shown that people of color are often whitewashed, that they tend to be chaperoned by white people, and that they are often subordinated through [...] [...] am now discussing how they are included. Already I have shown that people of color are often whitewashed, that they tend to be chaperoned by white people, and that they are often subordinated through [...]

]]> By: Sociological Images » HOW AND WHY PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE INCLUDED IN ADVERTISING: 8TH IN A SERIES http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-5417 Sociological Images » HOW AND WHY PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE INCLUDED IN ADVERTISING: 8TH IN A SERIES Fri, 26 Dec 2008 07:45:01 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-5417 [...] am now discussing how they are included. Already I have shown that people of color are often whitewashed and that they tend to be chaperoned.  Here I show that, when people of color are included, they [...] [...] am now discussing how they are included. Already I have shown that people of color are often whitewashed and that they tend to be chaperoned.  Here I show that, when people of color are included, they [...]

]]> By: Sociological Images » HOW AND WHY PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE INCLUDED IN ADVERTISING: 7TH IN A SERIES http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-5208 Sociological Images » HOW AND WHY PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE INCLUDED IN ADVERTISING: 7TH IN A SERIES Thu, 18 Dec 2008 07:18:00 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-5208 [...] am now discussing how they are included.  Already I have shown how people of color are whitewashed. Here I show that, when people of color are included, they are often chaperoned. That is, people of [...] [...] am now discussing how they are included.  Already I have shown how people of color are whitewashed. Here I show that, when people of color are included, they are often chaperoned. That is, people of [...]

]]> By: My Five Year Plan » Blog Archive » 90,000 New Friends?! http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-5169 My Five Year Plan » Blog Archive » 90,000 New Friends?! Tue, 16 Dec 2008 16:30:58 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-5169 [...] faces to approach a perceived white audience, and whose use of token non-white models often minimizes difference by using models whose color and facial structure strongly suggest traditional Caucasian [...] [...] faces to approach a perceived white audience, and whose use of token non-white models often minimizes difference by using models whose color and facial structure strongly suggest traditional Caucasian [...]

]]> By: Benjamin Lobato http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-4966 Benjamin Lobato Tue, 09 Dec 2008 21:30:12 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-4966 Shae, "Well, study a million pictures of a million people from all over the world, and you’ll see some similarities among races. " Yes. You will also see plenty of differences among "races" as well. To show black women who don't conform to "white standards of beauty", you've posted links to pictures of the [i]Sudanese[/i] supermodel Alek Wek.(who, by the way, does not have a curvy body, one of your criteria for regular black womanliness) Do most black women in the US look like her? I don't know, some do, some don't. How exactly does one decide what the "regular black women" standard should look like? Despite your objections, I do in fact get out, and I know women who look similar to the models in these ads. I know some African women who look similar to Alek Wek. So what? My original point was that not all women of color look the same, and this is being reflected in these ads; and that this doesn't necessarily reveal a racist motivation on part of the advertiser (which I think we agree on) Shae,

“Well, study a million pictures of a million people from all over the world, and you’ll see some similarities among races. ”

Yes. You will also see plenty of differences among “races” as well.

To show black women who don’t conform to “white standards of beauty”, you’ve posted links to pictures of the [i]Sudanese[/i] supermodel Alek Wek.(who, by the way, does not have a curvy body, one of your criteria for regular black womanliness) Do most black women in the US look like her? I don’t know, some do, some don’t. How exactly does one decide what the “regular black women” standard should look like?

Despite your objections, I do in fact get out, and I know women who look similar to the models in these ads. I know some African women who look similar to Alek Wek. So what? My original point was that not all women of color look the same, and this is being reflected in these ads; and that this doesn’t necessarily reveal a racist motivation on part of the advertiser (which I think we agree on)

]]> By: Shae http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-4948 Shae Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:23:46 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-4948 "So only black women who look “black enough” to you should be used as models?" Ha. No. Nice leap. The point is that not all kinds of women are deemed depictable by advertisers. The whitest looking ones are favored. Disagree with that if you like, but don't twist my words (or Lisa's). "I don’t see how a wide nose and a curvier body should be characterized as “regular black” women characteristics." Hm. Well, study a million pictures of a million people from all over the world, and you'll see some similarities among races. For the record, I agree with the people who are saying that you can't (or shouldn't) view every single image of a black person in advertising as some kind of racism - conformity if the black person "looks white", exoticness if she does not. But if you really can't tell that the black women chosen for the ads on this page, and the cosmetic ads in the other post, don't look an awful lot like the white women they're posing with, then I can't help but think you don't get out much. “So only black women who look “black enough” to you should be used as models?”

Ha. No. Nice leap.

The point is that not all kinds of women are deemed depictable by advertisers. The whitest looking ones are favored. Disagree with that if you like, but don’t twist my words (or Lisa’s).

“I don’t see how a wide nose and a curvier body should be characterized as “regular black” women characteristics.”

Hm. Well, study a million pictures of a million people from all over the world, and you’ll see some similarities among races.

For the record, I agree with the people who are saying that you can’t (or shouldn’t) view every single image of a black person in advertising as some kind of racism – conformity if the black person “looks white”, exoticness if she does not.

But if you really can’t tell that the black women chosen for the ads on this page, and the cosmetic ads in the other post, don’t look an awful lot like the white women they’re posing with, then I can’t help but think you don’t get out much.

]]> By: Alex http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-4934 Alex Tue, 09 Dec 2008 10:09:30 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-4934 I think it's interesting how many of the comments on this series seem grounded in the assumption that the underlying meaning of any conversation about race must be to make white people feel bad by uncovering hidden racism. You've laid out the six ways people of color are depicted in advertising. One could probably boil down the ways white women, white men, or any other category of people are depicted in advertising into a similar number of categories. The point of such an exercise isn't to demonize advertisers or consumers of advertising, but to hold up a mirror to how we as a society think about (in this case) racial difference. Not all of those ways are bad (for instance, the "hey, look, we're not racist!" move, as shown in part 5, is certainly better than the alternatives (ignoring people of color unless selling an ethnic product; not caring whether or not the company is perceived as racist). But it wouldn't be a necessary or productive move to make if not for the context in which people of color have long been invisible in ads for products that aren't specifically "ethnic." Similarly, here in these ads, the models of color were almost certainly chosen because they fit the prevailing beauty standard--the ad agencies didn't sit down and say, "Let's find one black or latina model who looks mostly white." But their choices were informed by a culture in which features associated with whiteness are also the features associated with beauty, and to choose a nonwhite model who will read as aspirational to consumers of various races *means* choosing a model whose features are similar to those of white models. The advertisers didn't cause that to be the case, but it's still worth drawing our attention to. Again, the point isn't to say, "Here, found some racism!" Rather, the point of this kind of analysis is to shed some light on how race is depicted in a particular medium (advertising, in this case) in order to unpack some of our culture's hidden assumptions about race. I think it’s interesting how many of the comments on this series seem grounded in the assumption that the underlying meaning of any conversation about race must be to make white people feel bad by uncovering hidden racism. You’ve laid out the six ways people of color are depicted in advertising. One could probably boil down the ways white women, white men, or any other category of people are depicted in advertising into a similar number of categories. The point of such an exercise isn’t to demonize advertisers or consumers of advertising, but to hold up a mirror to how we as a society think about (in this case) racial difference. Not all of those ways are bad (for instance, the “hey, look, we’re not racist!” move, as shown in part 5, is certainly better than the alternatives (ignoring people of color unless selling an ethnic product; not caring whether or not the company is perceived as racist). But it wouldn’t be a necessary or productive move to make if not for the context in which people of color have long been invisible in ads for products that aren’t specifically “ethnic.”

Similarly, here in these ads, the models of color were almost certainly chosen because they fit the prevailing beauty standard–the ad agencies didn’t sit down and say, “Let’s find one black or latina model who looks mostly white.” But their choices were informed by a culture in which features associated with whiteness are also the features associated with beauty, and to choose a nonwhite model who will read as aspirational to consumers of various races *means* choosing a model whose features are similar to those of white models. The advertisers didn’t cause that to be the case, but it’s still worth drawing our attention to.

Again, the point isn’t to say, “Here, found some racism!” Rather, the point of this kind of analysis is to shed some light on how race is depicted in a particular medium (advertising, in this case) in order to unpack some of our culture’s hidden assumptions about race.

]]> By: Benjamin Lobato http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-4926 Benjamin Lobato Tue, 09 Dec 2008 00:43:57 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-4926 "What makes the women in these ads look white is the choice of women who don’t display any of the characteristics that typically makes regular black women look black — dark skin, curly hair, wide noses, curvier bodies." I don't see how a wide nose and a curvier body should be characterized as "regular black" women characteristics. These are characteristics that vary within both white and black populations. Is a white woman getting rhinoplasty done, trying to be "more white"? Should a dark-skinned woman with a slim nose feel "less black"? Women of any color with wide noses and curvy bodies don't regularly appear in fashion ads. Skin color appears to be irrelevant. As far as darker skin and curly hair, I regularly see black models in ads with these characteristics; but according to the analysis of this series, these women are just being used to represent "hipness" or something "exotic". So once again, I ask: in what context can a woman of color possibly appear in an ad, and it not be interpreted as racist? Maybe this could make a good next article in the series... “What makes the women in these ads look white is the choice of women who don’t display any of the characteristics that typically makes regular black women look black — dark skin, curly hair, wide noses, curvier bodies.”

I don’t see how a wide nose and a curvier body should be characterized as “regular black” women characteristics. These are characteristics that vary within both white and black populations. Is a white woman getting rhinoplasty done, trying to be “more white”? Should a dark-skinned woman with a slim nose feel “less black”?

Women of any color with wide noses and curvy bodies don’t regularly appear in fashion ads. Skin color appears to be irrelevant.

As far as darker skin and curly hair, I regularly see black models in ads with these characteristics; but according to the analysis of this series, these women are just being used to represent “hipness” or something “exotic”.

So once again, I ask: in what context can a woman of color possibly appear in an ad, and it not be interpreted as racist? Maybe this could make a good next article in the series…

]]> By: AR http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-4917 AR Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:40:24 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-4917 <i>Obviously people of color in America wear blue jeans. That’s not what makes the women in these ads look white. What makes the women in these ads look white is the choice of women who don’t display any of the characteristics that typically makes regular black women look black — dark skin, curly hair, wide noses, curvier bodies.</i> So only black women who look "black enough" to you should be used as models? Obviously people of color in America wear blue jeans. That’s not what makes the women in these ads look white. What makes the women in these ads look white is the choice of women who don’t display any of the characteristics that typically makes regular black women look black — dark skin, curly hair, wide noses, curvier bodies.

So only black women who look “black enough” to you should be used as models?

]]> By: Shae http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-4912 Shae Mon, 08 Dec 2008 17:27:46 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-4912 In regard to my comment above, I posted another comment with links to some Old Navy photos. I should have realized that multiple links in a comment is often caught by spam filters. Perhaps it will show up after moderation, I don't know how it works here. Anyway, do a Google image search on "Old Navy". The first photo is a good example, and there are many more. In my opinion, that's how you include people of color in advertising without clinging to white standards of beauty. In regard to my comment above, I posted another comment with links to some Old Navy photos. I should have realized that multiple links in a comment is often caught by spam filters. Perhaps it will show up after moderation, I don’t know how it works here.

Anyway, do a Google image search on “Old Navy”. The first photo is a good example, and there are many more. In my opinion, that’s how you include people of color in advertising without clinging to white standards of beauty.

]]> By: Shae http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-4911 Shae Mon, 08 Dec 2008 17:19:41 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-4911 Just to expound upon my post above: http://www.blogthecoast.com/runway_ready/old-navy-girls.jpg http://luxepetite.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/121-old-navy-coupon.jpg http://scooterpress.rubbermag.com/0508/imgs/s_old_navy.jpg http://images.nymag.com/images/2/daily/fashion/08/08/13_oldnavy_lg.jpg That's what it looks like, IMO, to include people of color in advertising without choosing only those who conform to white standards of beauty. Just to expound upon my post above:

http://www.blogthecoast.com/runway_ready/old-navy-girls.jpg
http://luxepetite.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/121-old-navy-coupon.jpg
http://scooterpress.rubbermag.com/0508/imgs/s_old_navy.jpg
http://images.nymag.com/images/2/daily/fashion/08/08/13_oldnavy_lg.jpg

That’s what it looks like, IMO, to include people of color in advertising without choosing only those who conform to white standards of beauty.

]]> By: Shae http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2008/12/06/how-and-why-people-of-color-are-included-in-advertising-6th-in-a-series/comment-page-1/#comment-4910 Shae Mon, 08 Dec 2008 17:08:10 +0000 http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/?p=4091#comment-4910 While I agree that for decades beauty for people of color in advertising has meant that they look like beautiful white women tinted brown, I think this is changing. Some really hip fashion catalogs have started to choose black models who look a lot more "African" -- in other words, they may have extremely dark skin or more-than-slightly wider noses, etc. Old Navy comes to mind, though I don't have time to look for photos. I'd like to address this: "Next time I design an ad... I’ll show them wearing traditional dress and performing a heritage dance against a backdrop of their ancestral land. " Obviously people of color in America wear blue jeans. That's not what makes the women in these ads look white. What makes the women in these ads look white is the choice of women who don't display any of the characteristics that typically makes regular black women look black -- dark skin, curly hair, wide noses, curvier bodies. "I don’t see any chubby white women with big noses and curly hair in these pictures." But this only emphasizes the point. Advertising has decided that only one kind of woman is beautiful, and it's one who is hyper-white looking. While I agree that for decades beauty for people of color in advertising has meant that they look like beautiful white women tinted brown, I think this is changing. Some really hip fashion catalogs have started to choose black models who look a lot more “African” — in other words, they may have extremely dark skin or more-than-slightly wider noses, etc. Old Navy comes to mind, though I don’t have time to look for photos.

I’d like to address this:
“Next time I design an ad… I’ll show them wearing traditional dress and performing a heritage dance against a backdrop of their ancestral land. ”

Obviously people of color in America wear blue jeans. That’s not what makes the women in these ads look white. What makes the women in these ads look white is the choice of women who don’t display any of the characteristics that typically makes regular black women look black — dark skin, curly hair, wide noses, curvier bodies.

“I don’t see any chubby white women with big noses and curly hair in these pictures.”

But this only emphasizes the point. Advertising has decided that only one kind of woman is beautiful, and it’s one who is hyper-white looking.

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